WEBVTT

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Good morning. Morning,

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what's good about? Thank you sir. The lights are on

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this meeting of the Public utility Commission of texas

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will come to order to consider matters that have been

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duly posted with the secretary of State of texas for

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july 14th 2022. For the record. My name is Peter Lake

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with me today. Are will Mcadams, Laurie Cobos and jimmy

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Gladfelter. Mr Could you please walk us through the

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consent items on today's agenda? Good morning. Commissioners

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by individual ballot. Following items were placed on

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your consent agenda. 234579 10 12 2030 and 31. And

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I have to note that Commissioner Cobos recused herself

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from item 12. Thank you sir. Is there a motion to approve

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the items just described by Mr?

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All in favor say aye. None opposed motion passes.

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(item:1:Public Comment) We'll begin our agenda with public comment as item

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number one. But from there we will take up item number

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26 then number 22 before returning to the normal order

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of the agenda, starting with public comment. As always

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Oral comments related to specific agenda items will

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be heard when that item is taken up. This segment of

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public comment is for general comments only when we

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do get to oral comments on specific items, stakeholders

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should not approach stable unless oral argument has

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been previously granted or They have been invited by

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a commissioner speakers will be limited to three minutes

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each as always. Mr. Do we have anyone from the public

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signed up to speak. Yes sir. We have seven people signed

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up this morning. Uh First one is Robin Schneider. three

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minutes sir, three minutes as always please her and

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My name is Robin Schneider. I'm the executive director

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of Texas campaign for the environment. Thank you very

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much for this opportunity. I live here in austin texas

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but I am uh speaking um reading from comments that

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have been submitted to us this week from some of our

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supporters about what's going on right now with the

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grid from Susan Pardew of Dallas in 75252. I have severe

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sleep apnea. Sleeping without my CPAP would result

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could result in death. During the winter power outages

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I had to have family help me fight to stay awake. Not

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easy for an elderly lady. Great grandkids were crying

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from being cold. The high prices are depleting my Social

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Security. Please help us survive from Karen Mcdonald

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of plano 75075. My 91 year old mother has COPD and

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heart issues where she is dependent on four liters

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of oxygen 24 7 as well as her defibrillator, pacemaker

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monitor. She lives with me. And when we lost power

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we used her portable, however, not always reliable

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Plus it only lasts for a short time. She is no longer

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able to easily get up and down. So taking her somewhere

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where power may be available is not an option. It's

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hard enough watching her weakened and struggle, but

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when power is out is lost. She's not only has no, she

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not only has to hope the portable oxygen will last

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and work successfully, but also has to endure the heat

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and cold temperatures. My 71 year old brother also

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lives with me and he has a double kidney transplant

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and extreme temperatures are not healthy for him. Having

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reliable electricity is not, is an essential, not just

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a want please fix our grid where we can all sleep well

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at night. Life is so stressful as it is. Please don't

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add another stress into the mix and lisa brown from

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plano texas 75093. My father is 89 years old and has

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Parkinson's disease. Luckily he didn't lose power during

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Uri, but I'm concerned about this summer. I worry not

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only about him losing power but about the outrageous

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electric bills. We keep his thermostat between 76 and

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78°. His most recent bill for June was $348. He cannot

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afford 350 to $450 electric bills for another three

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months. God forbid his power goes out. The house heats

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up and then we have to use even more electricity to

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cool the house back down. There's absolutely no excuse

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for our state to have a power grid that cannot support

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the needs of Texans, especially when we pay ridiculously

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high electric bills. I used to be proud to be texas

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born and bred, but I'm more embarrassed now and our

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stupidity dealing with our electric grid is one of

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the reasons we need to reduce bills, reduce demands

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So that Texans like these aren't fearing for their

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lives and the lives of their loved ones. Thank you

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I have About 60 comments here that I'd like to submit

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for the record.

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Thank you ma'am.

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Next is Dave cortese.

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Okay,

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because

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Good morning Commissioners. Good morning participants

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David Cortez, my pronouns, are he him? I'm a native

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Texan Fifth Generation Chicano. Indigenous West Texan

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father have a four year old. I will never forget the

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sounds of her screaming when she was almost two. She

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was about 20 months when the winter storm hit. I will

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never forget the panic that my elderly neighbors experienced

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running their gas stoves to keep warm and us going

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out to let them know that that's actually not safe

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and they could hurt themselves or kill themselves.

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I want to speak briefly about yesterday and monday

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and then I'll talk about more specific comments. The

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texas sierra club. I'm the director. We worked diligently

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to let people know not to panic, not to politicize

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this great crisis to let them know what they can do

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in case the power goes out. I want you to know what

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that's like to get messages calls all day long when

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I'm trying to attend to my, my child, make sure that

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my family is covered. Hey, what do we do if if all

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our power goes out over here Is there somewhere we

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can go? Where do I find a cooling center? They're not

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open late. Uh, should I get gas? Can I run my car

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Do I need to make sure that the garage is open? All

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these kinds of things are the sentiment and worries

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of Texans this week. And so the time for leadership

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on energy efficiency and reducing demand was right

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after the winter storm and then it was during the legislative

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session and it's been every day and week since that

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was the best time for it. The good news for y'all is

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you still have that chance today and in the weeks to

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come and we compel you to open rulemaking for energy

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efficiency and expanding programs. So working class

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Texans can begin to save money on skyrocketing utility

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bills. We are so worried that yesterday we were at

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the price cap for four hours. It's mid july people

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how are we gonna get through this summer and people

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are gonna be saddled with extremely high bills to pay

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those back. We have to be thinking, we're thinking

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we're talking to the legislators, how do we create

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programs For utility bill relief? How do we bring back

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potential moratorium on cutoffs and shutoffs in the

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fall when people are saddled with $2,000 or more of

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utility bill debt. Donna thomas of Houston is a customer

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of reliant and served by centerpoint. She says that

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her bill went up last year more $75 more a month since

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last year. There have been many outages and interruptions

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and they're paying more for poor service outages by

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text for many months. And my uh she says I'm on a

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fixed income. I've had many outages. Why does this

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keep happening? What is up with this? I was affected

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by winter storm Uri I think of all the houses around

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me that need more insulation, all the walls, but people

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cannot afford to do it. They don't have the up front

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cost to invest in energy efficiency. Please. People

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need your help. Today is a great day to lead. Thank

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you. Thank you sir. Next step is ling xue.

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Good morning. My name is Lindsay. Do live in austin

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texas and I'm also with zero club. I'm reading jenny

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visor, she's leaving Houston texas and she's serving

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by just energy and served by centerpoint Words like

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I have a light bill that is too high and have a

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problem paying it. My electric company is just energy

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and my bill has been 200 230 or more most of the

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time I'm a senior citizen and I'm a fixed income. I

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have a two bedroom. I lived there with my daughter

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I'm trying to get some assistance with paying my light

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bill. This is not easy. Well um like Dave said so we

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need to, there are multiple ways to fix this. Right

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So lower the demand, especially helping this fixed

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income, those elderly their their house probably leaking

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right a lot of leaking house. So he keeps a c on

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keep heating on the it's a waste of energy. So fix

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those. Thank you. Thank you sir.

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Next next up is Craig Nazar.

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Hello. My name is dr craig Naser. I live in austin

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texas. I want to read you a couple of stories here

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One is from Nora's Wani in Brownsville texas T. X.

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U. Energy. My bill is $420 with T. X. U. Energy. It's

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been affecting me economically because I've been asking

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for extensions to be able to pay. The bad thing about

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the situation is that the three of us are not even

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home, we are always at work, everything is going up

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even the water and it's coming out really dirty. Barbara

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McIntire Cleveland texas energy. The winter storm has

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hit the elderly community hard. As of date we have

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spent $500,000 in home repair of pipes, plumbing flooring

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over 200 plus homes alone and we're still working on

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the list with over 300 more citizens, veterans and

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disabled families.

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There is how we think the world works. There is how

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we want the world to work and then there's how the

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world actually works. I think in my opinion it is your

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responsibility to let people know how the world actually

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works that climate change is here. It's bad that we

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have to reduce demand and the way we reduce demand

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Uh, you can't have one. What reduced demand for people

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by telling him, well, just suck it up, turn your electric

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you turn your heat up and then pay the big corporations

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to reduce demand. That's not right. That's not a way

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to go. You need to serve the people by helping them

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become more energy efficient. Now I know this flies

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in the face of all the energy companies that want to

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sell more energy because that's how they make money

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But what it it becomes a vampire sucking out of the

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people of texas to make this huge rich group of corporations

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there's a, there's a limit to that. There's a limit

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to when that just destroys texas. We're approaching

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that limit in my opinion. When it gets this hot energy

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costs go up that much personally because I I read things

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and I, you know, I invest in my home to make it

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energy efficient and it saved me tremendous money.

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I've solar everything, my energy bill. It was $10 in

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June $10. We need to extend that to everybody. We need

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to let everybody in on this and know how to do this

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because it's just not right. What's going on right

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now. Thank you very much. Thank you sir.

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Next up is Alex Ortiz,

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Good morning Commissioners. My name is Alex Ortiz.

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I'm the water resources specialist for the Lone Star

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chapter of the Sierra club. I live here in Austin texas

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my pronouns are he, him and I'm here just to support

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my colleagues and read a story of a Texan in the state

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has really struggled with energy efficiency. Um the

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story is from Daniella flanagan out of Houston texas

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who served by centerpoint, she says that she's seen

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a huge increase in bills. She had a blackout two weeks

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ago in the middle of doing homework and her power went

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out, she checked it wasn't her bill, there was no updates

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online available for her. She was told to go to center

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Point checked, centrepoint and Center point indeed

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had failed at transmitting power. She lost power for

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3.5 days from February 2021 slept in her car and burned

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up her edge and running it to stay warm. She applied

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for public help through fema and never received any

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aid. She has issues with bills because someone broke

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into her apartment and maintenance has yet to come

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fix her window, forcing her to deal with continued

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high energy bills from something that's so far outside

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of her control. I'm, I really feel like that it's important

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to share stories like this because we see that there's

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a real need for demand side response on top of every

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other possible avenue and increasing energy efficiency

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But starting with the demand side of the equation provides

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real relief to real Texans and lower energy bills all

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over the state. I know that I personally struggle with

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my own energy bill and seeing the skyrocketing cost

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even here in Austin and I am not in the same financial

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position as so many other people. Thank you so much

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for your time. Thank you.

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Next is jennifer Kreager.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Morning Commissioners. My name is Jen Krieger. I'm

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here in Austin texas but I'm gonna be using my time

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today to also read a story from somebody elsewhere

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in the state who could not join us. Um, so I'm going

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to read um what Rosa Ramirez from Brownsville who is

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a T. X. U. Customer served by a P Quo. Well this

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has never happened to me until now. They are charging

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me too much. They have never charged me that much.

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They charged me $278 in the previous years. I used

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to pay around $160. I'm the sole provider in my home

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and I'm a single mom. I can barely make it through

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These bills are so expensive and the food and then

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the gas so I can go to work. They meaning you need

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to do something to change this situation. End quote

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I also want to in addition to amplifying Mr Ramirez

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is pleas for help with our skyrocketing and entry bills

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I really want to emphasize that energy efficiency and

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demand side management should be priority number one

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I am grateful for the changes that you and others in

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the state have put into place to try to alleviate the

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burden on our grid. It is absolutely not enough. We're

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seeing it over and over. Just this week. We're right

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in it. Like Mr Cortez mentioned earlier, I have lived

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and work and breathe in the energy world and I am also

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fielding calls and text and social media queries all

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day long this week. What the hell do I do help? I

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am scared. I'm flashing back to winter storm Uri. I

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don't want to be in that situation again. What can

00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.679
I do now to be prepared? What can I do to help

00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:54.200
people are asking me, what can I do to help produce

00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.080
the amount of energy that I'm I'm using so that others

00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:00.220
don't suffer across the state. We are all in this.

00:17:00.230 --> 00:17:02.580
We want you to be in this, We want the utilities to

00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:05.700
be in this. Please please please prioritize energy

00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:08.460
efficiency and increase our energy efficiency goal

00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.759
for this state. From what I've seen from the latest

00:17:11.980 --> 00:17:14.950
report, the utilities have exceeded their energy efficiency

00:17:14.950 --> 00:17:18.630
targets By leaps and bounds. Going back to at least

00:17:18.630 --> 00:17:22.750
2003. I am grateful that they are exceeding their goals

00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.650
But they are proving the point that they can and should

00:17:25.650 --> 00:17:28.630
be doing more to help all of us across the state conserve

00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:31.890
energy in our homes and our businesses please open

00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:34.670
a proceeding to look at raising energy efficiency goals

00:17:34.670 --> 00:17:36.670
in doing everything that we can on the demand side

00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:37.890
Thank you very much.

00:17:41.029 --> 00:17:42.849
Next up is Shane johnson.

00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:44.890
Okay.

00:17:53.069 --> 00:17:57.299
Can y'all hear me? Great, thank you. Um Good morning

00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:59.960
everyone. My name is Shane johnson. I see him pronouns

00:18:00.339 --> 00:18:02.750
I'm a clean energy organizer with the texas Sierra

00:18:02.750 --> 00:18:08.970
club. Um, here today I'll briefly share um some short

00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:13.869
um, not even a full story. Um, but Brent Stephanie

00:18:13.869 --> 00:18:16.559
from Houston texas, who is the center point customer

00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:20.789
responded to a survey. He just used basically short

00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:24.579
answers, but were asked, have your, has your electric

00:18:24.579 --> 00:18:27.400
bill gone up this summer? He said yes. Did you have

00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.380
any blackouts to your power recently? He said yes.

00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.829
And were you affected by the grid failure during the

00:18:33.829 --> 00:18:37.130
winter storm? You're in February 2021. He said yes

00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:39.670
The family member died as a result of the winter storm

00:18:40.339 --> 00:18:45.349
Um, so just like those, you're speaking before me,

00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:50.059
um, you know, I hate to be a broken record, but clearly

00:18:50.059 --> 00:18:53.910
we need energy efficiency solutions first. It's long

00:18:53.910 --> 00:18:58.819
overdue. Uh, some of us spoke in december, We called

00:18:58.819 --> 00:19:02.200
on you to urgently address uh, this problem first and

00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:07.299
foremost, energy efficiency. Um, some of the commissioners

00:19:07.309 --> 00:19:11.859
uh, indicated interest in doing so and we're seeing

00:19:11.859 --> 00:19:14.960
nothing. There's no docket open for an energy efficiency

00:19:15.339 --> 00:19:18.519
programs, expansion are increasing the energy efficiency

00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.700
goal. And so many people pointed out it's cheapest

00:19:22.109 --> 00:19:26.359
It's most effective per per per dollar. Any cost metric

00:19:26.369 --> 00:19:28.849
to do energy efficiency first And that has not been

00:19:28.849 --> 00:19:35.109
done. And that's completely unacceptable. Um It's like

00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:39.200
I was saying it's long overdue um that we're already

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.609
starting to, you know, as we saw this on monday and

00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:45.690
Wednesday, the grid is not fixed in terms of being

00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:50.799
reliable, in terms of truly being um uh that's something

00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:58.470
that we can uh sleep with safe and soundly and there's

00:19:58.470 --> 00:20:01.380
just so much more you can do and it will come down

00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:05.710
to to people's lives, ultimately, people already reliving

00:20:05.710 --> 00:20:08.880
their trauma like somebody have said. Um and if the

00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.779
power does go out, then it is likely that more people

00:20:11.779 --> 00:20:14.059
will die even if it's just a short period of time.

00:20:15.140 --> 00:20:20.059
And um we we talked or some of us highlighted in december

00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:24.269
that uh the proposals you were considering at the time

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.980
uh could cost as much as a billion dollars and those

00:20:28.980 --> 00:20:32.210
costs would be passed on to customers on top of the

00:20:32.210 --> 00:20:34.220
securitization from the Legislature. That's already

00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:38.140
raising bills, high gas prices are raising bills. Um

00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:40.619
y'all have decided to go down the route towards the

00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:43.950
billion dollar plan. And obviously haven't done a full

00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:47.170
billion dollar plan, but you're you've done solutions

00:20:47.170 --> 00:20:48.980
that are costing millions of dollars and people already

00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:53.549
seeing it with their bills going up 50 $100 by calling

00:20:53.549 --> 00:20:56.819
on generators more and not investing in energy efficiency

00:20:56.829 --> 00:21:00.079
So please invest energy efficiency uh to help save

00:21:00.369 --> 00:21:03.920
people's lives and lower money on their bills. Thank

00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:05.259
you. Mhm.

00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:15.299
That's the that's the end of the people that have signed

00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:18.240
up, sir. All right, thank you. We have no other speakers

00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.859
for public comments. The public comment is now closed

00:21:21.940 --> 00:21:27.769
Next up, we'll take up out of order item 26. (item:26) We have

00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:32.759
Christie Hobbs from market to provide an update on

00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:33.849
system performance.

00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:39.450
Thanks. Mhm.

00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.079
All right, Good morning Chairman. Commissioners Christie

00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.630
Hobbs with ERCOT Vice president of corporate Strategy

00:21:46.630 --> 00:21:50.630
and PC relations. I want to thank you for this opportunity

00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.490
to kind of walk you through some of the events of this

00:21:53.490 --> 00:21:56.829
past week. Um And as we have continued to move through

00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.180
yet another record setting week on the ERCOT power

00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:04.549
system. As you know, on sunday evening, our ERCOT had

00:22:04.549 --> 00:22:08.579
to simultaneously issue a watch for potential capacity

00:22:08.589 --> 00:22:12.109
and sufficiency. At the same time, we were asking Texans

00:22:12.109 --> 00:22:16.109
to voluntarily conserve energy on monday afternoon

00:22:16.109 --> 00:22:20.599
between the hours of two and eight p.m. With the increased

00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.970
extreme heat that we were seeing on the system, we

00:22:23.970 --> 00:22:27.140
actually saw demand driven to yet another all time

00:22:27.140 --> 00:22:33.069
high on Monday afternoon. And that came in at 78,264

00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:37.549
MW. So as we go back and we look through sunday and

00:22:37.549 --> 00:22:39.789
kind of some of the steps that we took. And how did

00:22:39.789 --> 00:22:42.299
we get to the point where we were asking Texans to

00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:45.289
conserve energy. This isn't something that we take

00:22:45.289 --> 00:22:47.930
lightly. The request had to be made because we were

00:22:47.930 --> 00:22:51.750
seeing increased demand because of the extreme heat

00:22:51.809 --> 00:22:55.000
But we're also seeing our forecast for monday with

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.730
extreme low wind production. In fact at one point on

00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:02.039
Monday afternoon we actually saw wind dip below 700

00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:03.269
MW on the system.

00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:08.390
This request to our texas consumers demonstrates the

00:23:08.390 --> 00:23:11.410
commitment not only from ERCOT but the commission that

00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:15.349
we've provided to Texans that we will communicate earlier

00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:18.940
in years past, we may have waited until we were minutes

00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:21.809
away from needing that conservation of consumers, but

00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:26.009
because we asked in advance we saw Texans plan ahead

00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:30.190
and they did act in fact, if we go back and start

00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:34.450
looking at the events that unfolded on monday afternoon

00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:37.589
just before two o'clock, our operators were preparing

00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.490
to start taking some of the actions that they have

00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:43.750
from the tools in their toolbox to balance both supply

00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.500
and demand, But within the next five minutes we saw

00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:53.730
demand dropped nearly 500 MW. This was due to the conservation

00:23:53.740 --> 00:23:56.559
efforts of Texans and for that we thank you

00:23:58.539 --> 00:24:02.789
by Tuesday conditions seem to improve granted. We were

00:24:02.789 --> 00:24:06.220
still gonna see extreme heat on Tuesday afternoon,

00:24:06.230 --> 00:24:08.960
but the difference was, we were also seeing increased

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.660
wind forecast for the system. Let me give you an example

00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:16.420
at one o'clock on monday we saw that when was producing

00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:20.210
about 1000 megawatts of generation Fast forward to

00:24:20.210 --> 00:24:24.609
Tuesday, that was nearly 6000 MW that's a 5000 megawatt

00:24:24.609 --> 00:24:27.460
difference. And the huge reason why we didn't have

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:31.460
to call on Texans or take other measures on Tuesday

00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.109
as we move through Tuesday, we did see yet another

00:24:36.109 --> 00:24:40.890
record set, in fact, Over the past, let's say less

00:24:40.890 --> 00:24:44.559
than 70 days, we've seen 30 records set on the ERCOT

00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:49.720
system as we've moved through the summer. Now, as we

00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.890
went into Tuesday evening, looking into Wednesday,

00:24:52.890 --> 00:24:56.029
looking ahead at that time, our forecasts were showing

00:24:56.029 --> 00:24:59.759
that we would have adequate supply to meet demand of

00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.019
the grid for yesterday. Fast forward to yesterday morning

00:25:04.029 --> 00:25:08.180
our forecast and the conditions have changed. Not only

00:25:08.180 --> 00:25:10.690
did they change on the wind, but we saw them change

00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:13.359
for generation as well as solar.

00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:18.750
What we saw was the weather conditions out over the

00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:22.109
far west texas area were predicting uncertainty for

00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:24.640
our solar production. In fact, we were looking to see

00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:28.599
maybe 1 to 2000 megawatts less than our typical summer

00:25:28.609 --> 00:25:31.609
afternoon forecast due to cloud cover and potential

00:25:31.609 --> 00:25:34.670
showers that we're gonna be over the solar generation

00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.869
Also, early yesterday morning we saw a couple of units

00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.789
thermal generation units that were forced off due to

00:25:41.789 --> 00:25:45.750
mechanical failure. In fact, when we got to the afternoon

00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:50.549
we saw about 7000 just under 7000 MW of thermal generation

00:25:50.549 --> 00:25:53.140
on the system. That's a little bit more than what we

00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:57.450
typically forecast for this time of year. And finally

00:25:57.460 --> 00:26:00.119
what we were observing as we moved through the morning

00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:03.299
was that wind was coming in much less than our previous

00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:07.930
forecast. In fact they were going down aggressively

00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:10.480
compared to our most conservative forecast for the

00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:14.269
afternoon. When you combine those three factors together

00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.619
the wind, the solar and the thermal generation, uncertainty

00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:22.549
along with the increased demand. The decision was clear

00:26:22.579 --> 00:26:27.190
We once again had to call on Texans and again they

00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:32.000
responded, we understand we heard the comments this

00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.359
morning. We understand that this is a impact on the

00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:38.200
consumers of texas. And I want you to understand that

00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.049
that's a decision that we don't take lightly. A lot

00:26:41.049 --> 00:26:44.420
of thought and consideration goes into calling for

00:26:44.420 --> 00:26:47.599
conservation and we only use this tool in the most

00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.180
extreme circumstances as the control room managed throughout

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:55.930
the day. We saw them reach into their toolbox and use

00:26:55.930 --> 00:26:59.269
some of the tools that you through your rule makings

00:26:59.269 --> 00:27:02.359
and guidance last year instructed us to move earlier

00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:05.049
into the process. There were successful deployment

00:27:05.059 --> 00:27:07.990
of our emergency response services and working with

00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:11.240
the T. D. Use and transmission operators for distribution

00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.190
voltage reduction. Both of those programs being very

00:27:15.190 --> 00:27:18.670
reliable and helping us yesterday to keep from getting

00:27:18.670 --> 00:27:22.789
to emergency situations. And once again our Texans

00:27:22.789 --> 00:27:26.150
came through providing us conservation and hours that

00:27:26.150 --> 00:27:31.509
we requested where we saw again reserve or production

00:27:31.509 --> 00:27:32.359
on the system.

00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:36.900
In both instances this week I want to reiterate, we

00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:39.599
did not wait until we got to emergency conditions to

00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.150
communicate with Texans. We sent our communications

00:27:43.150 --> 00:27:46.950
out earlier so that Texans had a chance to prepare

00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:50.440
and we thank them for preparing and acting and helping

00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:54.910
us again. I also want to reiterate that we don't take

00:27:54.910 --> 00:27:57.599
these decisions lightly when we ask for conservation

00:27:58.339 --> 00:28:02.470
We will only do it when we need to ask for assistance

00:28:03.529 --> 00:28:07.019
Yeah. And I'd be remiss if I didn't take a moment to

00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:11.130
thank you the commission for working with us through

00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:15.329
these decisions that were made um over the year to

00:28:15.339 --> 00:28:20.509
move uh generation uh tools available to us. I would

00:28:20.509 --> 00:28:23.140
also like to thank the generation and transmission

00:28:23.140 --> 00:28:26.829
companies for their tireless efforts. Um not only this

00:28:26.829 --> 00:28:29.309
week, but leading up until this week to continue to

00:28:29.309 --> 00:28:32.670
provide service for Texans through this extreme heat

00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:37.349
And finally the 87th legislature for giving us the

00:28:37.349 --> 00:28:41.089
direction last year and the guidance and clarity so

00:28:41.089 --> 00:28:44.009
that we have the tools in place so that we can manage

00:28:44.019 --> 00:28:46.970
a situation like yesterday without getting into an

00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:51.769
emergency condition with that I will pause and see

00:28:51.769 --> 00:28:55.880
if you have any questions. Thank you Christy. Any questions

00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:58.700
for Christy at this point, just a couple of statements

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:03.950
I think um you know 2022 is on track to be the

00:29:03.950 --> 00:29:09.029
hottest record in texas history. So um I recently read

00:29:09.029 --> 00:29:14.170
that it is the third hottest um summer in U. S. History

00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.910
and that's just really something that we got to take

00:29:18.910 --> 00:29:22.769
in consideration as we look at the entire context or

00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:26.009
experiencing here in texas this summer. Um you highlighted

00:29:26.009 --> 00:29:28.940
that we hit two all time peak records this week. On

00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:34.940
monday it was 78,264 megawatts. And based on the feedback

00:29:34.940 --> 00:29:38.190
that you provided me at that point in time around five

00:29:38.190 --> 00:29:41.009
p.m. When we hit that all time peak record, We had

00:29:41.019 --> 00:29:45.829
5,496 megawatts and excess reserve capacity. That is

00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:49.589
enough to provide power to over a million households

00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.329
in texas. On July 12 we hit the next all time peak

00:29:54.329 --> 00:29:59.779
record, 78,419 MW. And based on your feedback at that

00:29:59.779 --> 00:30:04.460
time, we had 4,847 megawatts and excess reserve capacity

00:30:04.940 --> 00:30:09.559
That is enough power electricity to provide to nearly

00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:12.930
one million households. So I think that's important

00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:17.420
um um information to share with the public. Um as we've

00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:19.859
moved through some of the hottest days this summer

00:30:19.869 --> 00:30:25.279
and in texas history also by comparison to other um

00:30:25.289 --> 00:30:29.710
markets and other areas in in in our country. Um On

00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:32.940
Monday when we hit our first all time peak record spp

00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:36.390
that covers 17 states, hit their all time peak record

00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:43.920
of 51,377 megawatts. Comparative, compare that to um

00:30:43.930 --> 00:30:50.289
78,264 megawatts. That's nearly 27,000 more megawatts

00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:54.589
in on our system in texas that just shows the tremendous

00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:58.319
economic and population growth in our state versus

00:30:58.329 --> 00:31:02.309
a market that covers 17 states. So I just wanted to

00:31:02.309 --> 00:31:06.210
highlight um highlight those facts. I think they're

00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:08.930
important for the public to understand both by way

00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:12.750
of the heat that we're experiencing this summer, what

00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:15.039
excess reserve capacities we had when we hit those

00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.819
all time. Peak records also um compare our what we're

00:31:19.819 --> 00:31:24.069
experiencing in texas to other markets and also highlight

00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:26.869
that there's been a lot of discussion out there that

00:31:26.869 --> 00:31:30.750
er s is a rarely used tool. Well in the past E

00:31:30.750 --> 00:31:34.720
R. S was rarely used because ERCOT only used it when

00:31:34.730 --> 00:31:38.279
they were in emergency conditions because of our actions

00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.279
and the order that we issued out this fall, We provided

00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.309
ERCOT with the flexibility to use DRS outside of emergency

00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:49.339
conditions to prevent emergency conditions. So it'll

00:31:49.349 --> 00:31:53.500
ERCOT has the ability to use it more often. And I think

00:31:53.500 --> 00:31:57.430
that um later today um during our meeting will be looking

00:31:57.430 --> 00:32:02.650
to codify that flexibility in our rules. So I wanted

00:32:02.650 --> 00:32:07.059
to highlight that um for the stakeholders here at our

00:32:07.059 --> 00:32:09.329
open meeting and the public, I think those are important

00:32:09.329 --> 00:32:12.640
facts that should be taken to consideration um as we

00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.089
look at the whole entire picture of what we're experiencing

00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:20.549
here today. Thank you Commissioner Cobos. Um We'll

00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:23.069
put on the records that were set over his ERCOT set

00:32:23.069 --> 00:32:26.420
over 30 records have been set in the last 60, 70 days

00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:29.160
It has been unprecedented time in the history of our

00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.380
grid. But the most important part at the end of the

00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:36.000
day is that this grid is more reliable ever and the

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.759
lights are on. Uh

00:32:39.809 --> 00:32:44.480
in addition as our cut aptly described were being more

00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.569
transparent than ever before, both more transparent

00:32:48.579 --> 00:32:51.480
about tools and processes that you have always been

00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.240
in place and the new tools and reforms that have been

00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.380
brought to bear. And most importantly, I want to thank

00:32:57.380 --> 00:32:59.950
texas households and businesses for conserving when

00:32:59.950 --> 00:33:03.569
they needed to. As we heard conservation call is not

00:33:03.569 --> 00:33:06.730
taken lightly. We use every tool possible before we

00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:10.380
act before we ask millions of Texans to disrupt their

00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:14.180
lives, but sometimes it's necessary to ensure reliability

00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:17.529
and just as we take an all of the above approach to

00:33:17.529 --> 00:33:21.650
resources to provide electricity. We also take an all

00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:26.119
of the above approach to ensuring reliability when

00:33:26.130 --> 00:33:30.579
grid conditions get tight. We deployed the industrial

00:33:30.579 --> 00:33:33.900
demand response program, E R. S and that has proven

00:33:33.910 --> 00:33:37.440
as commissioner Cobo said to be absolutely critical

00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:41.809
in ensuring reliability for our citizens. Uh and we

00:33:41.809 --> 00:33:44.279
will continue to make sure that resource, that absolutely

00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.339
vital resource is available in our grid operations

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:51.839
Most importantly thanks to the Texas households and

00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.420
businesses who can serve when they needed. We had individuals

00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:56.589
at Holmes who made a big difference. We heard at two

00:33:56.589 --> 00:34:00.529
p.m. On monday, you could see that the exact response

00:34:00.539 --> 00:34:03.230
in our demand for electricity. We had sports arenas

00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:07.349
and skyscrapers that turned down the lights turned

00:34:07.349 --> 00:34:12.110
off the open the roof to help conserve this is a statewide

00:34:12.110 --> 00:34:15.210
effort and it made a tremendous difference. So thank

00:34:15.210 --> 00:34:18.170
you to all those individuals, those homes, those businesses

00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:23.480
for helping be part of that. All of the above approach

00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:24.760
to keep our lights on.

00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:30.710
This is a massive team effort. The team at ERCOT and

00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:33.570
the control room, they're supporting team did an extraordinary

00:34:33.570 --> 00:34:38.000
job in tough circumstances. Everybody at the puc plays

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:41.389
a role in this and everybody this diet plays a role

00:34:41.389 --> 00:34:45.440
in this. And so with that Commissioner Mcadams, you

00:34:45.449 --> 00:34:48.909
you been busy, Could you update us on your activities

00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:51.769
To ensure reliability over the last few days? Yes sir

00:34:51.769 --> 00:34:55.659
Well, each of us had a component in our, in our response

00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:58.739
to the situations of of this week, but we were all

00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:02.590
engaged with consumer classes of some sort over the

00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:07.710
last 96 hours. Um, for my part, I was engaged with

00:35:07.710 --> 00:35:11.739
our industrial partners um, in trying to inform them

00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:16.579
of orcas actions uh, in in within a prudent timeline

00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:21.480
of emergency conditions and hopefully uh Move them

00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.440
into a posture where they could assist potentially

00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.489
because people need to know that Texas is an industrial

00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:33.389
powerhouse of the country. We have over 1717 gigawatts

00:35:33.400 --> 00:35:37.030
of cogeneration capacity in this state that can assist

00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:40.000
in emergency conditions, either turning themselves

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.599
off or selling them back in. We had an inordinate amount

00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:48.500
of support over the last 96 hours to ensure that one

00:35:48.510 --> 00:35:53.139
consumers responded to price but also uh turn themselves

00:35:53.139 --> 00:35:56.210
off or sold their power back in because it was in their

00:35:56.219 --> 00:36:01.739
interests. Um and again because of market uh proactive

00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:04.750
communications posture, we were able to assemble an

00:36:04.750 --> 00:36:08.000
inordinate amount of megawatts to assist in that effort

00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:12.289
and keep us out of emergency or conservation conditions

00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:16.380
much less a crisis. So we were never approaching a

00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.659
crisis and that's an important uh data point to consider

00:36:21.030 --> 00:36:25.670
But on their part, I do want to thank um companies

00:36:25.670 --> 00:36:29.590
like dow chemicals and occidental petroleum for repeatedly

00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:32.550
responding over the course of this summer over the

00:36:32.550 --> 00:36:36.320
course of this last year and in years past um in in

00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:39.869
a very responsive way. two ERCOT system conditions

00:36:39.869 --> 00:36:42.719
and calls for conservation on the part of the commission

00:36:42.730 --> 00:36:45.639
and the system administrator. Uh one company in particular

00:36:45.650 --> 00:36:48.960
air products turned off three plants during the recent

00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.510
event. Um I mean just shut them down. Uh that was in

00:36:53.510 --> 00:36:56.960
part to price responsive activity and also alerts from

00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.829
our system and the commission and uh I do want to recognize

00:37:00.829 --> 00:37:03.769
and thank them. Thank you for leading that part of

00:37:03.769 --> 00:37:07.119
this effort. The transmission is a big part of this

00:37:07.789 --> 00:37:10.960
So I I spent some time the last few days talking with

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.429
both transmission distribution utilities as well as

00:37:13.429 --> 00:37:18.309
some generators. Obviously every time we reached out

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.960
or I reached out to them, they were very responsive

00:37:20.969 --> 00:37:25.250
very aware of the challenges that we were facing, very

00:37:25.250 --> 00:37:27.449
eager to be part of the solution if we needed them

00:37:27.449 --> 00:37:32.579
to open their toolbox. Um you know, these programs

00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:36.480
when you get the programs for um ensuring reliability

00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.500
are complex, uh this is a complex power system and

00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.539
the further you get down into this toolbox, the more

00:37:43.539 --> 00:37:47.980
complex these tools get. So um having people available

00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:52.059
to help us understand those um what it takes to uh

00:37:52.070 --> 00:37:54.960
reduce voltage or what it takes to to step into another

00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.210
emergency type program. It's really important to understand

00:37:58.210 --> 00:38:04.760
that uh timing um time lag time lines um and very they

00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.159
were very responsive and and I appreciate that. Um

00:38:08.170 --> 00:38:10.530
I think I'd like to echo the comments of the other

00:38:10.530 --> 00:38:14.190
commissioners that um you know, the consumers, the

00:38:14.190 --> 00:38:17.800
businesses that that helped this helped us get through

00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:22.949
this. Um they that's what we want, we want them to

00:38:22.949 --> 00:38:25.099
be a part of it and we want them to have see

00:38:25.099 --> 00:38:30.309
value in what they're doing. Um but the one I'm not

00:38:30.309 --> 00:38:33.050
ready to pat myself on the back uh since it's only

00:38:33.050 --> 00:38:33.530
july

00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:40.780
and um so we are uh nose to the grindstone, we've got

00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:42.880
a lot of work to do, we've got market designed to make

00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.269
sure that we get power plants built in this system

00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.139
and um we have energy efficiency to do. We have, you

00:38:50.139 --> 00:38:53.099
know, to look at ensure our Black Start program works

00:38:53.099 --> 00:38:57.369
and to ensure that r r rolling outages work correctly

00:38:57.380 --> 00:39:00.679
Um critical infrastructure stays in place, a lot of

00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:03.050
work to do so. Um I know you all are up to

00:39:03.050 --> 00:39:06.570
the task as am I and uh I'm eager to keep, keep

00:39:06.570 --> 00:39:08.929
pushing forward to make the system more reliable. We'll

00:39:08.929 --> 00:39:11.639
put in the there will certainly be no

00:39:13.619 --> 00:39:19.090
no pats on backs at any point. Even every day, the

00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:21.119
people of this commission and ERCOT get up knowing

00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:24.619
that every day, regardless of weather conditions we

00:39:24.619 --> 00:39:27.730
must keep the lights on and keep them reliable regardless

00:39:27.730 --> 00:39:31.059
of what season, what time of day etcetera. Commissioner

00:39:31.059 --> 00:39:34.780
Cobos, I know you've been working with the Independent

00:39:34.780 --> 00:39:38.460
Market Monitor to make sure that when we see as we

00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.389
have seen the last few days the prices, these high

00:39:41.389 --> 00:39:47.050
prices reflect a fair and efficient marketplace and

00:39:47.059 --> 00:39:51.239
to ensure that everyone is operating in good faith

00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:55.280
and above board and to keep an eye out for any malicious

00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:57.750
activity or profiteering. That's certainly something

00:39:57.750 --> 00:40:01.519
that will be longer term. Look, but that's an important

00:40:02.010 --> 00:40:05.800
oversight activity. Yes sir. Thank you. Mr Chairman

00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.750
Yes. Um as a matter of you diligence um within the

00:40:09.750 --> 00:40:12.309
purview of our regulatory oversight um I am working

00:40:12.309 --> 00:40:17.139
with um ERCOT I mm to ensure that to review all have

00:40:17.139 --> 00:40:18.909
have a review all the activity over the last several

00:40:18.909 --> 00:40:22.699
days to help ensure that um all behavior in the market

00:40:22.699 --> 00:40:27.039
was appropriate, Fair and efficient um to protect our

00:40:27.050 --> 00:40:30.130
consumers and ratepayers out there in the state. Thank

00:40:30.130 --> 00:40:32.690
you. Look forward to seeing that results of that continued

00:40:32.690 --> 00:40:33.019
activity.

00:40:34.809 --> 00:40:37.369
And again, as always, we will continue to be diligent

00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:41.579
continue our all of the above approach to reliability

00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:47.170
across all metrics, all segments and using every tool

00:40:47.170 --> 00:40:49.820
in the toolbox to keep the lights on for texas. Thank

00:40:49.820 --> 00:40:53.349
you. Mr Chairman. Well we have Christy and I won't

00:40:53.349 --> 00:40:56.849
go far beyond the bounds. This is this is a good moment

00:40:56.860 --> 00:40:59.179
Um It's not the end of the moments that will experience

00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:01.710
this summer, but I would like to take a little bit

00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:05.059
of a walk down memory lane um for those of us who

00:41:05.059 --> 00:41:09.489
remember so Christy before this year, when was our

00:41:09.489 --> 00:41:14.849
last peak record, Load record set. We'd have to go

00:41:14.849 --> 00:41:20.360
back to 2019 for that right, August 22 right, 74,800

00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:24.500
and some odd megawatts that year. Okay. And we didn't

00:41:24.500 --> 00:41:29.030
experience another Load record all time record until

00:41:29.030 --> 00:41:31.960
this year. Is that an accurate statement? That is correct

00:41:31.969 --> 00:41:36.219
Okay, and so what we experienced in that interlude

00:41:36.230 --> 00:41:41.320
was a global pandemic, a shutdown of our entire economy

00:41:42.010 --> 00:41:45.309
a complete retreat of the consumer class to their homes

00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:52.699
for a year. And then so August of 2019 pandemic makes

00:41:52.699 --> 00:41:58.860
landfall in february of 21. I'm Sorry, February of

00:41:58.869 --> 00:42:05.849
20. Okay. And then economy retreats and then it reopens

00:42:05.860 --> 00:42:10.090
in the spring of 21 that was after winter storm Uri

00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.969
and I want folks to remember that even during winter

00:42:12.969 --> 00:42:15.940
storm Uri which was 100 and 38 year weather induced

00:42:15.949 --> 00:42:19.349
event The economy reopened after that. And over the

00:42:19.349 --> 00:42:23.260
last 30 days we have set eight all time records, is

00:42:23.260 --> 00:42:23.880
that accurate?

00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:28.719
And that's like the equivalent of playing eight super

00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:33.599
bowls and we have won eight times now, still not self

00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:37.190
congratulating, but my point is is that we could easily

00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:41.000
surpass 80 gigawatts of Load on this system by the

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:43.920
end of the summer and we will combat that and cope

00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:47.309
with it. And we have the tools to do that Because of

00:42:47.309 --> 00:42:50.070
legislation and phase one actions by this commission

00:42:50.070 --> 00:42:54.719
and our ERCOT But my point is is that we could Be

00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:59.090
experiencing an 8% demand growth in less than a year

00:43:00.099 --> 00:43:02.539
That means we have a different state than we had in

00:43:02.539 --> 00:43:07.460
2019. The infrastructure is different and the plans

00:43:07.460 --> 00:43:10.780
that we are making here will build the infrastructure

00:43:10.780 --> 00:43:15.250
needed to support the demands of this new state of

00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:18.980
instead of 28 million people, potentially 30 million

00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:21.789
people or however many it is but I would note that

00:43:21.789 --> 00:43:25.260
that that Load growth represents potentially 1.8 million

00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:28.190
homes plugging into this state new homes over the last

00:43:28.190 --> 00:43:31.570
year. And so when people ask us, what do we need, what

00:43:31.570 --> 00:43:35.710
do we prioritize? We need megawatts and we may need

00:43:35.710 --> 00:43:40.260
megawatts now to support this new demand and we are

00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:43.639
doing everything we can on the resource on the megawatt

00:43:43.650 --> 00:43:48.639
the generation side and the demand side. But look I'm

00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:51.039
an old military guy, you have to face the immediate

00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.900
threat first and then you can talk about trying to

00:43:54.909 --> 00:44:01.400
uh plan ahead for the future. But um okay I try to

00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.679
recapture that in response to absolutely valid concerns

00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:08.750
from the public and that we are working towards the

00:44:08.750 --> 00:44:12.719
future but we have to address the present. Well put

00:44:13.789 --> 00:44:17.130
uh thank you Christy. Thank you for the update. Thank

00:44:17.130 --> 00:44:19.920
you. Commissioners hold on. We're gonna keep you ready

00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.699
for the next item. Uh per my previous statement we're

00:44:22.699 --> 00:44:27.099
gonna move out of order from 26 to item number 22 to

00:44:27.099 --> 00:44:32.170
address exactly some of those demand response uh industrial

00:44:32.170 --> 00:44:37.000
conservation items that were proved so absolutely critical

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:41.440
yesterday. Mr J Would you please lay out item 22 Project

00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:47.070
number 53493. (item:22) Item 22 is project 53493. It's Emergency

00:44:47.070 --> 00:44:50.840
response service before you is a proposal for adoption

00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:54.320
filed by commission staff. Thank you sir, you mentioned

00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:57.670
earlier the deployment of er s our industrial demand

00:44:57.670 --> 00:45:01.010
response energy conservation program before we get

00:45:01.010 --> 00:45:04.510
into the side from uh completely could you refresh

00:45:04.510 --> 00:45:08.449
us on how it was deployed, the extent to which it was

00:45:08.449 --> 00:45:12.369
deployed, the hours it was deployed. Sure. And I may

00:45:12.380 --> 00:45:14.900
call cannon up to to assist me with this as well and

00:45:14.900 --> 00:45:18.730
some of the specifics but yesterday afternoon we did

00:45:18.739 --> 00:45:22.809
when our physical responsive reserves um after we had

00:45:22.809 --> 00:45:25.289
deployed some of the other generation resources and

00:45:25.289 --> 00:45:29.579
tools that we had, we saw that our reserves were continuing

00:45:29.590 --> 00:45:34.179
to decline. Um and when we got to the point of around

00:45:34.190 --> 00:45:38.110
3000 MW, we deployed the emergency response service

00:45:38.489 --> 00:45:44.480
With that we saw over 1000 megawatts of response come

00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:49.159
on to help with supply and demand, balancing that supply

00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:53.820
and demand. Um They remained deployed for just over

00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:57.530
3.5 hours yesterday assisting in balancing the supply

00:45:57.530 --> 00:46:02.139
and demand of the system. Thank you. That's it

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.789
needless to say, a substantial part of our es

00:46:07.380 --> 00:46:11.309
the reserve was used yesterday as it is intended and

00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:16.269
used was was used effectively to ensure reliability

00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:21.340
and ensure that the general public, our economy continued

00:46:21.340 --> 00:46:23.800
to function as usual, which is exactly why we've made

00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:26.710
the reforms that commissioner has mentioned earlier

00:46:27.329 --> 00:46:29.730
Thank you, Christine. I just want to highlight the

00:46:29.730 --> 00:46:34.019
fact that it was used yesterday and in the order in

00:46:34.019 --> 00:46:36.920
the order of magnitude in which it was used 1,000,000

00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:40.219
megawatts which would have gotten in the absence of

00:46:40.219 --> 00:46:42.449
this demand response and the reforms we've put in place

00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:47.099
would have gotten us Near that 80,000 mark yesterday

00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:50.710
Thank you. Just wanted to highlight that this is

00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.820
and to highlight how important this particular rule

00:46:54.820 --> 00:46:55.130
is.

00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:01.780
We have been deliberate in this commission about making

00:47:01.780 --> 00:47:06.260
sure that we use whatever tools are necessary and that

00:47:06.260 --> 00:47:09.710
we need we need to enhance or increase the efficacy

00:47:09.710 --> 00:47:12.010
of a tool we do and we do it quickly and that's

00:47:12.010 --> 00:47:18.659
what this item is about. And as Mr Mcadams mentioned

00:47:19.579 --> 00:47:22.460
we still have a lot of hot days ahead of us, we've

00:47:22.469 --> 00:47:26.969
got out full half summer ahead of us and so that's

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:32.119
why I believe we need to replenish uses this rule to

00:47:32.130 --> 00:47:38.000
replenish the reserves in er s so that ERCOT can move

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.070
immediately to make sure that we continue to have adequate

00:47:42.139 --> 00:47:45.150
industrial demand response to protect the public safety

00:47:45.150 --> 00:47:47.210
and and ensure reliability.

00:47:49.210 --> 00:47:52.440
You know the thoughts, comments, thank you Mr Chairman

00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.250
for your leadership on um taking swift action with

00:47:55.250 --> 00:47:59.820
this rulemaking to um add more funds to this very important

00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:04.130
reliability program and to allow the flexibility to

00:48:04.130 --> 00:48:06.300
use it over a longer duration of time. This is critically

00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:09.199
important that we take swift action on this matter

00:48:09.269 --> 00:48:11.829
and I thank you for your leadership and helping us

00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:17.320
move in that um efficient swift matter. I would echo

00:48:17.320 --> 00:48:21.269
that Mr Chairman, thank you, I would occur that as

00:48:21.269 --> 00:48:25.719
well. Um thank you for getting this up front and center

00:48:25.730 --> 00:48:27.690
Thank you to the staff for working through it very

00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:31.360
quickly. Um This is a type of program that most people

00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:35.190
don't know about but almost every Texan benefits from

00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:38.980
and uh they don't know it but it's there, I'm not sure

00:48:38.980 --> 00:48:41.710
that that the amount that we're authorizing is enough

00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:44.340
but I also know that we can come back and do this

00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:47.619
again if we have to or we built in flexibility to address

00:48:47.619 --> 00:48:51.769
that and that this is a critical tool that we have

00:48:51.769 --> 00:48:56.409
in our toolbox and they um those who are take part

00:48:56.409 --> 00:49:00.260
in this program do respond absolutely. We saw the performance

00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:06.289
yesterday and in the spirit of being expeditious and

00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:08.889
to make sure that we have the resources ready. I would

00:49:08.889 --> 00:49:12.360
also ask staff to amend the proposal for adoption to

00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:14.820
include language noting that immediate effective date

00:49:14.829 --> 00:49:18.730
is necessary in this case to ensure public safety and

00:49:18.730 --> 00:49:21.900
welfare. We will have the tools we need to ensure reliability

00:49:22.929 --> 00:49:26.389
so if that is agreeable to you all and ask for that

00:49:26.869 --> 00:49:29.769
amendment and as you said, Shawnee and Ileana did a

00:49:29.769 --> 00:49:33.739
tremendous job moving very quickly out to make this

00:49:33.739 --> 00:49:34.190
happen.

00:49:37.730 --> 00:49:40.289
Is there a motion to adopt the proposal for a decision

00:49:40.300 --> 00:49:43.429
to be effective immediately upon filing with the Secretary

00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:45.900
of State in accordance with texas government code section

00:49:46.269 --> 00:49:52.789
2001.036 2nd. All in favor say aye unopposed motion

00:49:52.789 --> 00:49:57.090
passes thank you all sean Ileana Steph, thank you very

00:49:57.090 --> 00:50:02.449
much. Thank you Christy. Mhm very important item next

00:50:02.449 --> 00:50:03.179
on employees. Mr

00:50:10.150 --> 00:50:14.420
(item:6) I believe that gets us to item six serve stock at 53109

00:50:14.420 --> 00:50:18.000
the application of indian development for system improvement

00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:22.699
charge A draft military order was filed on July 13

00:50:22.710 --> 00:50:27.000
reflecting responses to briefing order service. System

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:31.769
improvement charges issue thoughts, comments. Well

00:50:31.780 --> 00:50:35.130
I just wanted to highlight that um regulation division

00:50:35.139 --> 00:50:39.599
Darrell Tianjin um noted that he has sent out per our

00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:43.039
request. I believe that the last open meeting um that

00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:46.579
he look into whether or not the utility is over earning

00:50:46.590 --> 00:50:50.050
Um he is in the process of getting that information

00:50:50.059 --> 00:50:52.400
more information from. The utility has sent out some

00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:55.260
informal discovery requests that he expects to receive

00:50:55.260 --> 00:50:59.579
on july 20th and may have to issue out more questions

00:50:59.579 --> 00:51:03.510
So his request was that um he provide us with an update

00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:08.460
uh the august 25th open meeting uh to enable us on

00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.889
whether or not the utility is actually over earning

00:51:10.889 --> 00:51:14.010
and that piece of information is very important because

00:51:14.010 --> 00:51:16.920
if they are in fact over earning then we would want

00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:19.750
to bring them in for a rate case and dismiss the system

00:51:19.750 --> 00:51:24.289
improvement charge proceeding. So um I mean from my

00:51:24.289 --> 00:51:27.210
perspective we can we can move in two different paths

00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:29.650
We can um or two different options to move forward

00:51:29.659 --> 00:51:33.429
are um just waiting until the 25th and seeing if if

00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:37.039
what Darrell provides us and not approving the preliminary

00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.949
order at this time or we can improve the preliminary

00:51:40.949 --> 00:51:43.340
order. But I know we have a lot of things you know

00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:48.110
items on our plate um at this time um and we move

00:51:48.110 --> 00:51:50.880
forward to the preliminary order. We may actually haven't

00:51:50.889 --> 00:51:53.610
end up having to recall the case back if the utility

00:51:53.610 --> 00:51:58.559
is in fact over earning. So um I'm open to either one

00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:01.730
I think the first one is probably where I lean in towards

00:52:01.730 --> 00:52:04.099
is that we just wait till the 25th and see where the

00:52:04.099 --> 00:52:08.380
utility stands in their earnings position before we

00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:10.690
move forward this you know preliminary order because

00:52:10.690 --> 00:52:13.929
it's just cleaner that way. Um But if you want to go

00:52:13.929 --> 00:52:16.230
ahead and give direction on some of these policy issues

00:52:16.230 --> 00:52:18.860
here today, I'm fine with that as well. Okay thank

00:52:18.860 --> 00:52:21.070
you for laying that out. We're looking forward to getting

00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:24.460
that information back on the 25th they'll receive that

00:52:24.469 --> 00:52:30.019
and then from there it will need to be um there's an

00:52:30.019 --> 00:52:32.340
evaluation period and if there is over earning then

00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:34.670
that would trigger the first steps in a rate case.

00:52:34.670 --> 00:52:37.190
Right? Yes we want to bring him in for a rate case

00:52:37.190 --> 00:52:41.190
because um and then for the commission system Improvement

00:52:41.190 --> 00:52:43.849
charge rule. If we do bring them in for a rate case

00:52:43.849 --> 00:52:46.440
because they're over earning then we would have to

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:49.500
dismiss the system improvement charge case because

00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.179
you can't have a sick case going on at the same time

00:52:52.179 --> 00:52:55.250
as the base rate. Okay I mean those okay those are

00:52:55.250 --> 00:52:57.519
separate cases and as you said we've got a lot on our

00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:00.380
plate so you can take a while to get to the to

00:53:00.380 --> 00:53:04.739
the rate case but happy to hear thoughts and um mr

00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:09.440
Chairman. Thank you. Um I guess my view on this is

00:53:09.449 --> 00:53:14.769
this is a challenge waiting to happen. Um The status

00:53:14.769 --> 00:53:18.849
of our water systems is uh a challenge we've heard

00:53:18.849 --> 00:53:21.929
in the news lately about Odessa system failing and

00:53:21.929 --> 00:53:24.110
what that meant for consumers and we've had it happen

00:53:24.110 --> 00:53:28.349
and laredo and central texas and other areas and um

00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:33.150
we we've got a problem that we're that is facing us

00:53:33.150 --> 00:53:36.050
staring us in the face, you know better than us as

00:53:36.050 --> 00:53:37.670
the former chairman of the Water Development Board

00:53:38.050 --> 00:53:42.610
Um in this case I I'm in agreement with Commissioner

00:53:42.610 --> 00:53:46.829
Cobos um the use of the system improvement charge I

00:53:46.829 --> 00:53:50.849
think um was a tool that we requested our staff requested

00:53:50.849 --> 00:53:53.380
that the commission worked with the legislature on

00:53:53.380 --> 00:53:56.250
and it took a number of sessions to pass. It's something

00:53:56.250 --> 00:53:59.019
that we ought to make sure that our systems are using

00:53:59.019 --> 00:54:02.460
so they can serve the public as they need to. That

00:54:02.460 --> 00:54:06.579
being said, it's thing has to be used fairly honestly

00:54:06.670 --> 00:54:09.309
We have to be able to look at books and records, make

00:54:09.309 --> 00:54:12.860
sure that the affiliate rules are in place and that

00:54:12.940 --> 00:54:16.039
utilities are not overturning that's our obligation

00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:20.980
to consumers. So um I just want to say that um an

00:54:20.980 --> 00:54:23.250
agreement that we wait for this rate case and this

00:54:23.250 --> 00:54:26.610
actual proceeding but that, gosh this is a this is

00:54:26.610 --> 00:54:30.739
a type of rule and the type of tool that we need

00:54:30.750 --> 00:54:36.519
to help improve water utilities in our ST noted mr

00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:43.059
Mcadams. Yeah, I mean I think you need to determine

00:54:43.670 --> 00:54:50.300
key facts in order including affiliate status including

00:54:50.309 --> 00:54:56.179
over earning um before we set a rate that will have

00:54:56.190 --> 00:54:59.920
a long term effect on that system and by long term

00:54:59.920 --> 00:55:03.900
I mean a lot of years before we will see them again

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.539
So we need to have all the facts um completely in agreement

00:55:07.539 --> 00:55:10.849
with that. In terms of the process, you will you would

00:55:10.860 --> 00:55:11.969
remand back

00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:19.380
I think based on commission advising guidance. I think

00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:23.030
that um if we decide to wait for Darryl to provide

00:55:23.030 --> 00:55:26.320
us a report at the august 25th open meeting then we

00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:30.000
would not adopt the or not approve the draft preliminary

00:55:30.010 --> 00:55:33.440
order and recall the case back in the meantime. And

00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.400
then when Darrell comes back with the information,

00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:37.360
we make a determination at that point whether we bring

00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:39.920
the utility in for rate case or we continue to move

00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:43.300
forward with the system improvement charge case this

00:55:43.300 --> 00:55:46.670
pending case and issued a preliminary order. So recall

00:55:46.670 --> 00:55:49.159
it back, sink everything up, make a determination.

00:55:49.539 --> 00:55:55.449
Uh It's either rhodey or road B from there. Yes. And

00:55:55.449 --> 00:55:57.840
you're comfortable that staff will have the full analysis

00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:59.969
completed by the 25th to determine if the rate case

00:55:59.969 --> 00:56:02.739
is needed. That is based on Darryl's feedback.

00:56:06.230 --> 00:56:08.099
Good Morning Commissioner zero Teaching on behalf of

00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:11.769
staff. We anticipate that we will have something to

00:56:11.769 --> 00:56:15.699
you by file for your consideration at the august 25th

00:56:15.699 --> 00:56:19.409
meeting. Uh there's always a possibility we might need

00:56:19.409 --> 00:56:22.369
a little bit of additional information coincidentally

00:56:22.369 --> 00:56:26.329
just this morning I received an email from, from indian

00:56:26.329 --> 00:56:29.190
or undying uh and we're gonna have a call with him

00:56:29.190 --> 00:56:32.429
this afternoon so we'll see what they say. But My intent

00:56:32.429 --> 00:56:34.849
is to get you something for your consideration, August

00:56:34.849 --> 00:56:37.579
25 meeting. Alright, if we can skip straight to the

00:56:37.579 --> 00:56:40.289
right case and solve all of it one time, that works

00:56:40.289 --> 00:56:42.460
just fine.

00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:46.500
Alright, you need, you need a motion we just table

00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:49.360
this. I need a motion for you to delegate authority

00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.880
media issue in order to so asking them to return the

00:56:51.889 --> 00:56:54.449
case to us. Do we have such emotions?

00:56:56.099 --> 00:57:01.619
2nd all in favor say, Aye, Aye. Not opposed next item

00:57:01.619 --> 00:57:02.050
please sir.

00:57:04.429 --> 00:57:07.489
I think it brings us to number eight. I don't have

00:57:07.489 --> 00:57:12.230
anything on this. What's next? After that 11 which

00:57:12.230 --> 00:57:14.010
I guess you don't have anything

00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:19.809
that gets us to 13 I believe. Alright, please lay that

00:57:19.809 --> 00:57:24.989
out for us. (item:13) item 13 to docket 52241 is the

00:57:24.989 --> 00:57:30.389
application of energy to amend A CCN for a 3rd 1 38

00:57:30.389 --> 00:57:33.429
KV transmission line in Montgomery county. A proposal

00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:36.300
for decision was filed on May 17th and no exceptions

00:57:36.309 --> 00:57:39.769
were filed. Thank you sir, thoughts, comments on this

00:57:39.769 --> 00:57:39.949
one.

00:57:42.340 --> 00:57:47.070
Yeah, I've got thoughts Mr Chairman. I'll be the grump

00:57:47.079 --> 00:57:51.960
on this one. Um Look I I believe the commission should

00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:55.179
remand this proceeding to So um Energy attempted to

00:57:55.179 --> 00:57:57.409
amend its application through rebuttal testimony to

00:57:57.420 --> 00:58:02.150
add modified segments. R. One M. B. K. M. One and B

00:58:02.150 --> 00:58:05.670
K. M. Two because apartment buildings were being constructed

00:58:05.670 --> 00:58:09.139
in the right of way for original segments are one and

00:58:09.139 --> 00:58:12.449
B. K. Without the proposed modifications. Nine out

00:58:12.449 --> 00:58:15.849
of the 22 proposed routes would require condemning

00:58:15.849 --> 00:58:19.500
apartment buildings understandable. Uh I do not believe

00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:22.460
that it is appropriate to substantively amend the CCN

00:58:22.460 --> 00:58:25.469
application through rebuttal testimony filed less than

00:58:25.469 --> 00:58:28.150
two weeks before the hearing on the merits parties

00:58:28.150 --> 00:58:30.199
were not given adequate opportunity for discovery or

00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:32.719
supplemental testimony to address the modified segments

00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:36.090
and there are several routes used Using the modified

00:58:36.090 --> 00:58:38.440
segments that appear more favorable than Route one

00:58:39.219 --> 00:58:41.739
Therefore I would uh I believe that the commission

00:58:41.739 --> 00:58:44.570
should remand this proceeding to so for energy to officially

00:58:44.579 --> 00:58:47.309
amend its application to include the modified segments

00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.989
and for parties to be given adequate process with respect

00:58:50.989 --> 00:58:53.849
to the amended application. The docket should should

00:58:53.849 --> 00:58:56.139
then return to the commission either with written agreement

00:58:56.150 --> 00:58:59.610
between the parties or a proposal for decision. Now

00:58:59.619 --> 00:59:03.650
in addition I would like to make some comments. Um

00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:09.489
I'll try to go softly about the side agreement between

00:59:09.489 --> 00:59:13.869
Energy commission staff and parks and wildlife in this

00:59:13.869 --> 00:59:17.550
proceeding. Now the texas parks and Wildlife code.

00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:24.989
Uh Section 12.0. Subsection C requires this commission

00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:28.010
to provide a written response to each recommendation

00:59:28.420 --> 00:59:31.429
or information informational comment made by the texas

00:59:31.429 --> 00:59:34.739
parks and Wildlife Department. The commission has traditionally

00:59:34.739 --> 00:59:37.969
done so by including in its electric CCN orders a number

00:59:37.969 --> 00:59:41.079
of findings of fact and ordering paragraphs related

00:59:41.090 --> 00:59:45.159
to park's recommendations. Now, many of those findings

00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:47.840
of fact and ordering paragraphs have become standardized

00:59:49.139 --> 00:59:52.570
I want to point out that no statute requires this commission

00:59:52.570 --> 00:59:55.750
to follow parks and wildlife recommendations. Rather

00:59:55.750 --> 00:59:58.289
the commission is required to make CCN routing decisions

00:59:58.289 --> 01:00:00.909
based on several different factors, including the need

01:00:00.909 --> 01:00:04.769
for additional service reliability costs, community

01:00:04.769 --> 01:00:08.250
values, historic, historical and aesthetic values and

01:00:08.250 --> 01:00:11.139
recreational and park areas which we have discussed

01:00:12.070 --> 01:00:14.320
and environmental integrity. Don't let me forget that

01:00:15.309 --> 01:00:18.980
Now, recently it appears in several dockets that parks

01:00:18.980 --> 01:00:22.289
is making more recommendations than usual. And the

01:00:22.289 --> 01:00:24.409
utilities and the commission staff are reaching side

01:00:24.409 --> 01:00:28.860
agreements um on those recommendations which is not

01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:32.079
generally a party to the CCN proceedings. Now, these

01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:35.139
side agreements with non party are problematic and

01:00:35.139 --> 01:00:37.230
the commission should not endorse them. In my view

01:00:37.710 --> 01:00:40.650
there does not appear to be a robust analysis of additional

01:00:40.650 --> 01:00:44.480
costs and may result from that may result from compliance

01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.949
with the side agreements. Um Nor is there clear evidence

01:00:47.949 --> 01:00:51.860
the anticipated benefits. So I believe the commission

01:00:51.860 --> 01:00:54.659
should not blindly approve measures for which there

01:00:54.659 --> 01:00:57.869
is not cost benefit analysis and as a property owner

01:00:57.869 --> 01:00:59.909
as a landowner, as someone who believes in the texas

01:00:59.909 --> 01:01:04.429
constitution um the ability for a state agency to interject

01:01:04.429 --> 01:01:06.860
itself into a routing proceeding that will affect the

01:01:06.860 --> 01:01:09.900
property rights of adjacent landowners is problematic

01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:11.820
Yes sir.

01:01:15.610 --> 01:01:18.730
Well, put agree on both points, we can do better than

01:01:18.730 --> 01:01:19.119
this

01:01:22.309 --> 01:01:24.639
big loop you got up there and that that needs to be

01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:26.440
considered as part of the

01:01:28.110 --> 01:01:30.760
normal process and very much agree with the point on

01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:33.869
parks and wildlife and the affected cost picture. Yeah

01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:38.010
the those agreements inside deals and please note staff

01:01:38.019 --> 01:01:41.130
have implications and costs. As commissioner Macadam

01:01:41.130 --> 01:01:44.739
said that ripple beyond what that agreement is,

01:01:46.309 --> 01:01:49.340
we'll put the other thoughts, comments, I would say

01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:52.969
that it's really easy to cite a line and come to an

01:01:52.969 --> 01:01:57.380
agreement when it's not on your property. So um that's

01:01:57.389 --> 01:01:59.829
uh that's the that's the easy way out rather than the

01:01:59.829 --> 01:02:03.539
hard way out. And we have to uh have due process here

01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:06.210
We have to allow those in these segments that haven't

01:02:06.210 --> 01:02:09.809
been noticed to have noticed. Um and to be a part of

01:02:09.820 --> 01:02:16.820
this proceeding um You know there are uh to me uh route

01:02:16.820 --> 01:02:20.630
13 is the best route. Um I just don't understand with

01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:22.860
the docket and the information that I have read and

01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:26.400
I have read a lot of this um why there's so many

01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:29.190
turning structures. Turning structures are exponentially

01:02:29.190 --> 01:02:34.599
more expensive than tangent structures and Um they

01:02:34.610 --> 01:02:39.809
on all of these routes we have 13 1415 turning structures

01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:44.239
Um, I don't know if uh, you know, in the routing and

01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:48.010
I, and I'm a believer in the work that power engineers

01:02:48.010 --> 01:02:50.409
does as a routing consultant. They're very good, they're

01:02:50.409 --> 01:02:55.539
very um specialized in this area and um, so there must

01:02:55.550 --> 01:02:59.460
be reasons, but it seems like um what I would like

01:02:59.469 --> 01:03:01.730
in addition to what Commissioner Mick Adams has said

01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.239
Um I'd like a little bit more understanding of why

01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:08.449
the shortest route is one of the most expensive routes

01:03:08.449 --> 01:03:10.730
and that would be 13, the one that they recommended

01:03:11.369 --> 01:03:16.619
It seems that it's 13, it's $77 million 5.4 miles.

01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.309
Now I know 25 million of that on all of these is

01:03:20.309 --> 01:03:24.980
for a substation. But um, it just would seem like if

01:03:24.980 --> 01:03:30.360
we're gonna send this back um for more um evidence

01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:33.639
and more papering that having more evidence on why

01:03:33.650 --> 01:03:37.739
these you know, five mile lines will cost between 60

01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:42.860
and $80 million would be an important for me. Um The

01:03:42.860 --> 01:03:46.010
other thing that I would say is, I am, we've had a

01:03:46.010 --> 01:03:48.650
discussion on a case a few, either the last meeting

01:03:48.650 --> 01:03:53.150
or two meetings ago about spun concrete poles, manacles

01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:56.539
I would like to, you know, give the utility credit

01:03:56.539 --> 01:03:59.659
here. They've recommended spun punk concrete Orman

01:03:59.659 --> 01:04:04.000
apples when we get densely populated areas, they are

01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:07.119
going to be better. And as we can see on this map

01:04:07.150 --> 01:04:12.030
this is north of Houston, this is uh uh the trinity

01:04:12.030 --> 01:04:15.360
river watershed, it floods a lot. So we have to make

01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:18.340
sure that uh you know, the geological folks do what

01:04:18.340 --> 01:04:21.130
they think is necessary to keep these uh these structures

01:04:21.130 --> 01:04:25.210
in place during severe weather, but all that being

01:04:25.210 --> 01:04:28.550
said um I think we we need to go back and take

01:04:28.550 --> 01:04:31.960
another bite at the apple here and you know, give due

01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:34.780
process to those on the on these other routes. Yeah

01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:40.170
I agree with the points made by Commissioner Mcadams

01:04:40.170 --> 01:04:44.070
in Commissioner. I think it's important that we remand

01:04:44.070 --> 01:04:46.849
the case back to. So a so that notice can be provided

01:04:46.849 --> 01:04:49.530
on the modified segments so that when we get this case

01:04:49.530 --> 01:04:52.559
back um either with the settlement agreement or PFD

01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:55.159
we have a robust menu of routes from which to choose

01:04:55.159 --> 01:05:00.349
from. And um with respect to the letter agreement with

01:05:00.349 --> 01:05:02.239
the texas, parks and wildlife, I think that you're

01:05:02.250 --> 01:05:05.070
exactly on point Commissioner Mcadams there, we made

01:05:05.070 --> 01:05:08.179
this determination in the encore case at the last open

01:05:08.179 --> 01:05:10.519
meeting with respect to letter agreements with texas

01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:14.110
parks and wildlife and and our view on on that matter

01:05:14.110 --> 01:05:17.650
So that's where I stand in agreement on both points

01:05:18.489 --> 01:05:21.949
Thank you. I might just say that that might be something

01:05:21.949 --> 01:05:25.389
that Mr Chairman, you could help us with the one of

01:05:25.389 --> 01:05:27.179
the board members of the texas Department of Parks

01:05:27.179 --> 01:05:28.909
and Wildlife also happens to be the Chairman of the

01:05:28.909 --> 01:05:29.289
archives.

01:05:31.489 --> 01:05:35.510
We can have a conversation, the

01:05:37.090 --> 01:05:40.719
thank you for thoughts, comments, Good points all especially

01:05:40.730 --> 01:05:44.050
appreciate commission felt acknowledging what our parties

01:05:44.059 --> 01:05:44.510
do.

01:05:47.590 --> 01:05:50.530
Take note of comments from here. As in the case of

01:05:50.530 --> 01:05:57.269
the concrete poles. We will know the um I have some

01:05:57.269 --> 01:05:57.940
good points.

01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:02.900
Thank you for the land articulating that we've got

01:06:02.900 --> 01:06:05.699
some very specific requests as part of this remand

01:06:06.539 --> 01:06:11.820
Do we have emotion? Mr Chairman? Uh Well, I'm gonna

01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:14.639
make a broad motion because I think we stress the points

01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:16.559
that need to be in it. Moved the commission remand

01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:18.710
this proceeding to so a consistent with the commission's

01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:23.349
discussion. Check it all in favor say aye.

01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:34.989
Brings us to item number 14 I believe. Well, go ahead

01:06:34.989 --> 01:06:37.510
and lay that out for us. (item:14) item 14 is docket

01:06:37.510 --> 01:06:41.070
at 5 to 45 once the application of southwestern public

01:06:41.070 --> 01:06:44.909
service for approval of advanced metering system deployment

01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:48.230
plan, their surcharge and nonstandard metered service

01:06:48.230 --> 01:06:51.989
and fees proposed order was filed on May 26th. J L

01:06:51.989 --> 01:06:55.510
J filed a correction memo on june 7th and I also have

01:06:55.510 --> 01:06:59.190
a memo with proposed changes to the order. Thank you

01:06:59.190 --> 01:07:03.539
sir. This is AMS which is so much potential but so

01:07:03.539 --> 01:07:04.340
much complexity.

01:07:06.780 --> 01:07:12.349
Mr Chairman if if I may um, we we have we have

01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:15.929
blazed a path since the composition of this commission

01:07:15.940 --> 01:07:19.389
on AMS deployment. We've had some good feedback. We've

01:07:19.389 --> 01:07:23.869
had some uh consensus on how to move forward on specific

01:07:23.869 --> 01:07:27.349
issues and as such, I believe the commission should

01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:32.190
approve the SPS amended deployment plan. Um the plan

01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:34.940
and surcharge appear to comply with the requirements

01:07:34.940 --> 01:07:41.400
of Pura 39 402 subsection a uh and tax 16 tax 25.130

01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:44.760
Um In addition, I believe that the proposed A. M. S

01:07:44.769 --> 01:07:47.360
meets the requirements for the utility to provide third

01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:52.340
party access. Finally, sBS has requested good cause

01:07:52.340 --> 01:07:56.489
exception to waivers of certain commission rules and

01:07:56.489 --> 01:07:59.949
I believe we should proceed consistently with how we

01:07:59.949 --> 01:08:03.110
have previously held with el paso Electric and swept

01:08:03.110 --> 01:08:06.670
co applications. Of note, I believe that there is good

01:08:06.670 --> 01:08:09.969
cause to allow SPS to suspend suspend sample testing

01:08:09.969 --> 01:08:13.820
of existing meters within the random sample test program

01:08:13.829 --> 01:08:16.340
during the deployment period and periodic testing of

01:08:16.340 --> 01:08:20.270
meters in this, in its periodic test programs, We should

01:08:20.270 --> 01:08:24.239
also grant a waiver from the requirement that remote

01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:27.069
disconnection and reconnection capabilities for advanced

01:08:27.069 --> 01:08:32.390
m rated at or below 200 amps. Uh Further, I would believe

01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:35.170
we should grant a waiver of the requirement that costs

01:08:35.180 --> 01:08:38.960
of implementing a msb moved into base rates if a base

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:42.000
rate case occurs during the AMS deployment period.

01:08:42.470 --> 01:08:44.659
And finally, I do not believe that we should grant

01:08:44.659 --> 01:08:47.500
a temporary waiver for previously do monthly progress

01:08:47.500 --> 01:08:49.949
reports. It has been a practice of this commission

01:08:49.949 --> 01:08:53.310
to not grant good cause exception to pass deviations

01:08:53.310 --> 01:08:56.180
in the rule and I believe all of these points are consistent

01:08:56.180 --> 01:08:58.779
with how we have previously proceeded on the other

01:08:58.789 --> 01:09:02.710
amS deployment plans. We'll put other thoughts coming

01:09:03.270 --> 01:09:06.010
I'm in agreement with Commissioner Mcadams based on

01:09:06.010 --> 01:09:09.720
my review of this case, I think the company heard our

01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:13.229
feedback and went back amended their application um

01:09:13.239 --> 01:09:17.880
to comply with our rule and I think, you know, consistent

01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:20.489
with our decision in the el paso and showcases the

01:09:20.489 --> 01:09:23.510
waivers that they have requested um should be granted

01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.899
with the exception of the one that Commissioner Mcadams

01:09:25.899 --> 01:09:29.529
noted that is not necessary. Um the only administrative

01:09:29.539 --> 01:09:31.909
item that I wanted to make sure we get on the record

01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:34.409
Um it's my understanding that commission staff was

01:09:34.409 --> 01:09:38.029
part of the original settlement agreement with respect

01:09:38.029 --> 01:09:42.859
to SPS initial application. Um since then the application

01:09:42.859 --> 01:09:47.319
has been amended by the company and there is the companies

01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:50.510
represented that all the parties are in agreement with

01:09:50.510 --> 01:09:52.840
the amended application and the revised order except

01:09:52.840 --> 01:09:55.180
they don't, they haven't received any feedback from

01:09:55.180 --> 01:09:58.279
commission staff um just to make sure that we have

01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:01.449
a complete record. I would like to understand for commission

01:10:01.449 --> 01:10:04.989
staff if they have any concerns with the amended application

01:10:04.989 --> 01:10:07.279
or if they're in agreement or not opposed.

01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:15.869
Good morning Commissioners Philip Lehman for puc staff

01:10:17.659 --> 01:10:24.569
So just briefly, when SPS had filed their amended application

01:10:24.960 --> 01:10:28.569
unfortunately we were unable to review it at that immediate

01:10:28.579 --> 01:10:32.000
juncture. However, after that we have taken it back

01:10:32.010 --> 01:10:34.829
reviewed it with our experts and determined that um

01:10:34.829 --> 01:10:38.250
we are okay with what they have included in their amended

01:10:38.250 --> 01:10:38.850
application.

01:10:40.460 --> 01:10:44.680
Okay so you're in support and support. Okay. Great

01:10:45.260 --> 01:10:50.289
Excellent thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good points

01:10:50.289 --> 01:10:53.949
All agree in general. He thought too much about that

01:10:53.949 --> 01:10:54.449
I've got one.

01:10:56.359 --> 01:11:01.739
Yeah, I do I do agree with the that's good Denying

01:11:01.739 --> 01:11:05.420
the waiver for the monthly reports but as we have discussed

01:11:05.420 --> 01:11:09.739
the 3rd party data access functionality is important

01:11:09.750 --> 01:11:14.159
and in this particular case it wasn't abundantly clear

01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:19.789
that that would be available. So I would like to ask

01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:22.300
that we specifically in those monthly reports that

01:11:22.300 --> 01:11:26.939
they will be filing that they specifically once it's

01:11:27.989 --> 01:11:32.289
practical address the functionality of of customer

01:11:32.289 --> 01:11:35.010
and third party access to that data so we can see as

01:11:35.010 --> 01:11:37.829
this deployment rolls out that we truly are getting

01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:40.930
uh customer and third party access to that data. That's

01:11:40.930 --> 01:11:45.380
a big part of this entire AMS effort if that's

01:11:47.029 --> 01:11:51.680
good point. Yes. All right. I would have, I would have

01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:56.409
emotion if you're amenable um as such, I would move

01:11:56.420 --> 01:11:58.829
to approve the proposed order is modified by commission

01:11:58.829 --> 01:12:02.090
council memo uh and consistent with our discussion

01:12:04.649 --> 01:12:07.460
and the correction memo of the LJ. We've got a motion

01:12:07.460 --> 01:12:13.079
to have a second to say hi not opposed motion passes

01:12:14.550 --> 01:12:18.310
Thank you. All next item please. Mr june. The next

01:12:18.310 --> 01:12:22.539
(item:15) is item 15. Docket 53625 is the application of

01:12:22.539 --> 01:12:27.409
swift code for CCN for generation facility. The commission

01:12:27.420 --> 01:12:30.090
issued a briefing order to address the public interest

01:12:30.090 --> 01:12:33.159
test for our state generation and depending on your

01:12:33.159 --> 01:12:36.840
result we might need to issue a supplemental preliminary

01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:39.789
order. Thank you sir. We've discussed this before and

01:12:39.789 --> 01:12:42.710
I suspect there are some opinions on the diet, thoughts

01:12:42.710 --> 01:12:47.359
comments. Mr Chairman. I my view it's very simple.

01:12:47.369 --> 01:12:52.310
It's that uh protecting the public interest is the

01:12:52.310 --> 01:12:55.560
most important thing that we do here and uh it permeates

01:12:55.560 --> 01:12:58.760
through every single decision that is made and every

01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:01.960
rule that's promulgated here. Um And to that end we

01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:05.760
need to ensure that we use Again this word all the

01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:09.279
tools in the toolbox to make sure that uh that we understand

01:13:09.289 --> 01:13:12.649
um what is in the public interest. So I would recommend

01:13:12.649 --> 01:13:20.100
that uh that we use both 14.001 and 14.101 to determine

01:13:20.100 --> 01:13:24.460
which is the best route to ensure that we can have

01:13:24.460 --> 01:13:26.600
a public interest determination on these facilities

01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:30.699
outside of Texas. I am in agreement with Commissioner

01:13:30.710 --> 01:13:34.489
Glass flt um I think both provisions are applicable

01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:38.760
Uh 14 01 being a broad statutory authority over utilities

01:13:38.760 --> 01:13:44.170
and 14 101 I think applies Uh you know we have precedent

01:13:44.170 --> 01:13:50.750
where we have applied 14 101 and 1401. Um the transaction

01:13:50.750 --> 01:13:53.380
the proposed transaction would affect the rates and

01:13:53.380 --> 01:13:57.579
costs and services of Rothko's retail customers in

01:13:57.579 --> 01:14:01.670
Texas um these facilities together um are over $2 billion

01:14:01.670 --> 01:14:04.890
dollars but the majority of the cost would be for the

01:14:04.890 --> 01:14:08.359
facilities in Oklahoma and Louisiana. So as a matter

01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:11.739
of due diligence to protect our ratepayers of in in

01:14:11.739 --> 01:14:15.439
texas that are served by swept co um we must apply

01:14:15.449 --> 01:14:20.100
public interest determination cost benefits, key to

01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:22.369
everything we do here. You can't just focus on the

01:14:22.369 --> 01:14:24.579
benefits side, especially when it's outside our borders

01:14:25.539 --> 01:14:29.779
Um Mr Chairman, look at the end of the day, I believe

01:14:29.779 --> 01:14:32.329
it's in the interest of the state to maintain a mechanism

01:14:32.329 --> 01:14:36.090
to have input again from the public interest position

01:14:36.100 --> 01:14:38.840
on the determination of our regulated utilities as

01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:43.270
to their resources and their resource adequacy capabilities

01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:49.560
And um so one way or another, I wanted us to to

01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:52.359
have that position moving into this preliminary order

01:14:52.729 --> 01:14:58.409
and if it I totally agree with the broad powers under

01:14:58.420 --> 01:15:06.340
14.01. Um And uh Yeah, specifically on 14101. So no

01:15:06.340 --> 01:15:08.369
I would support including both positions.

01:15:10.340 --> 01:15:11.659
Alright, we have a motion

01:15:14.340 --> 01:15:17.960
Motion to approve a supplemental preliminary order

01:15:17.970 --> 01:15:24.109
Um and that 14101 and 1401 applies um in the commission

01:15:24.119 --> 01:15:25.859
review of the public interest.

01:15:28.020 --> 01:15:32.960
Second motion in a second, all in favor, say, aye,

01:15:33.539 --> 01:15:34.909
none opposed motion passes

01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:44.649
Bring this to item # 16. (item:16) We've got a joint memo from

01:15:44.649 --> 01:15:48.090
the Commissioner's macadam and Blofeld when you want

01:15:48.090 --> 01:15:48.899
to lay that out for us.

01:15:54.140 --> 01:15:57.489
Thank you. Mr Chairman. Um It has been a pleasure to

01:15:57.489 --> 01:16:00.430
work with Commissioner Gladfelter on this project,

01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:04.090
um and I'll specifically look at our ERCOT partners

01:16:04.090 --> 01:16:07.939
over there. Um I would state from the outset it is

01:16:07.949 --> 01:16:13.239
a focus of this commission, uh certainly our offices

01:16:13.729 --> 01:16:20.029
that we have much before us in terms of ERCOT operationally

01:16:20.029 --> 01:16:24.930
developing tools to combat the challenges of massive

01:16:24.930 --> 01:16:29.659
demand growth in our system. Um It is a priority for

01:16:29.659 --> 01:16:34.609
us to manage ERCOT ability and to provide resources

01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:39.149
to enhance ERCOT ability to uh to develop those tools

01:16:39.729 --> 01:16:46.319
the D. R. Capabilities of this state are anecdotally

01:16:46.329 --> 01:16:52.220
the evidence indicates. They are massive and um there

01:16:52.220 --> 01:16:56.800
have been three pilot projects developed uh at market

01:16:56.810 --> 01:17:01.350
over the last oh 5 to 7 years that have in bits

01:17:01.350 --> 01:17:06.210
and pieces attempted to address the D E. R issue. Um

01:17:06.220 --> 01:17:11.239
What we are proposing in our memo is another strategy

01:17:12.029 --> 01:17:16.960
It is one to initiate a pilot program for D E. R

01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:22.590
S around the state. Uh And as captured in our conversation

01:17:22.590 --> 01:17:25.930
at the last open meeting, it would include

01:17:27.729 --> 01:17:31.270
competitive territories of the state, in addition to

01:17:31.430 --> 01:17:36.000
non opt in entities. Uh those parameters and those

01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:39.159
involved utilities have not been formalized yet, but

01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:43.630
there is great interest from many parties. Um There

01:17:43.630 --> 01:17:47.720
is a broad universe of willing participants who want

01:17:47.720 --> 01:17:53.100
to be involved. There is there are many operational

01:17:53.109 --> 01:17:57.220
challenges that need to be identified, articulated

01:17:57.229 --> 01:18:02.710
and solved for um what the memo lays out our consensus

01:18:02.710 --> 01:18:08.470
positions from a recently, uh a recent workshop held

01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:13.869
at the commission to determine the broad goals, principles

01:18:13.880 --> 01:18:18.869
of a proposed pilot project and then the key parameters

01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:23.149
um at a high level which should be considered to determine

01:18:23.149 --> 01:18:29.229
its scope. Uh I brought up ERCOT at the beginning because

01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:32.979
they are going to be a key element of this and it's

01:18:32.989 --> 01:18:37.100
it's a it's a unique animal um it's unique in the history

01:18:37.100 --> 01:18:41.850
of ERCOT because to solve the D. R. Uh resource question

01:18:42.420 --> 01:18:47.189
this occurs at the distribution level. ERCOT is a transmission

01:18:47.189 --> 01:18:50.149
system manager, they are also a market administrator

01:18:50.890 --> 01:18:59.039
and um we are introducing a new level of of participation

01:18:59.609 --> 01:19:04.289
in the market with this pilot and that's got to be

01:19:04.289 --> 01:19:11.180
worked through carefully as such to To take a different

01:19:11.189 --> 01:19:15.260
tack than the other three pilots. Commissioner Gladfelter

01:19:15.260 --> 01:19:20.149
and I believe it is important to have an outside group

01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:24.609
um that is working in concert with both ERCOT staff

01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:29.640
and tech in the formal stakeholder process to identify

01:19:29.649 --> 01:19:33.199
operational obstacles, make recommendations and help

01:19:33.210 --> 01:19:37.380
formalize a recommendation by ERCOT staff to the ERCOT

01:19:37.380 --> 01:19:40.510
board of Directors, which ultimately, as per our rules

01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:47.369
has to approve and implement any pilot. Um this task

01:19:47.369 --> 01:19:50.840
force would be structured similarly to the stakeholder

01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:54.760
process within market, but again with a special commission

01:19:54.760 --> 01:20:00.279
focus so that it uh so that if operational and regulatory

01:20:00.279 --> 01:20:03.500
obstacles present themselves this commission can immediately

01:20:03.500 --> 01:20:07.260
attempt to address them and solve for them. Um and

01:20:07.260 --> 01:20:09.439
I know Commissioner Black felt he has a lot of thoughts

01:20:09.449 --> 01:20:13.590
about this and I'll leave the door open for him. Thank

01:20:13.590 --> 01:20:16.760
you. Commissioner Mcadams, I mean, this is, um, kind

01:20:16.760 --> 01:20:21.100
of the, a new foray for us as, as Commissioner Mcadam

01:20:21.100 --> 01:20:24.060
said, getting into the distribution system, distribution

01:20:24.060 --> 01:20:27.739
system functions that help the wholesale market across

01:20:27.739 --> 01:20:32.859
the state. Um, this, uh, this really is, uh, it's been

01:20:32.859 --> 01:20:35.039
done before. I mean, you just have to think about it

01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:37.430
in a, in a different way and that is on the, on

01:20:37.430 --> 01:20:42.319
the Load side. We have 20 million m across the state

01:20:43.109 --> 01:20:46.920
and they get aggregated into areas and quizzes and

01:20:46.920 --> 01:20:49.760
noize and so forth. And, and then it all comes to ERCOT

01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:52.579
at the distribution level. You don't really have that

01:20:52.590 --> 01:20:56.590
function yet. So as we go through this pilot and I

01:20:56.590 --> 01:20:59.039
think it was really important that we do the pilot

01:20:59.710 --> 01:21:04.390
um, first and have a parallel task force as opposed

01:21:04.390 --> 01:21:06.510
to a task force that just recommend something and then

01:21:06.510 --> 01:21:08.869
we go through the pilot and then we find more problems

01:21:08.880 --> 01:21:11.369
in the pilot. We're solving something in a much quicker

01:21:11.369 --> 01:21:14.579
fashion. Um, and we're gonna do it in a methodical

01:21:14.579 --> 01:21:18.319
way where it's, it's not increasing congestion across

01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:22.239
the system. It is um, gonna be valuable to ratepayers

01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:25.489
It's gonna be valuable to aggregators and um, we're

01:21:25.489 --> 01:21:29.829
gonna be able to see how the potential of this program

01:21:30.109 --> 01:21:33.789
um, in future years that we could provide reliability

01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:37.449
and economic benefits to those who want to aggregate

01:21:37.449 --> 01:21:41.289
their response this bigger as we have rooftop solar

01:21:41.289 --> 01:21:44.979
as we have electric vehicles, as we have power walls

01:21:44.979 --> 01:21:48.850
as we have, um, you know, reciprocating engines, We

01:21:48.850 --> 01:21:51.159
have all sorts of things that are attaching to the

01:21:51.159 --> 01:21:55.409
distribution system. Um, and I'm excited about this

01:21:55.409 --> 01:21:58.869
I think this is something that's gonna be uh, really

01:21:58.869 --> 01:22:02.180
exciting to watch um and something that's gonna provide

01:22:02.189 --> 01:22:07.069
a lot of value to consumers um, in the future. Thank

01:22:07.069 --> 01:22:09.010
y'all for laying that out. I'm glad to see the progress

01:22:09.010 --> 01:22:09.409
you've made.

01:22:11.420 --> 01:22:14.810
Yes, thank you. Commissioner Mcadams in Commissioner

01:22:15.060 --> 01:22:17.970
guilty for your leadership on this. Very important

01:22:18.529 --> 01:22:21.449
matter. As we've heard today, as we keep hearing, we

01:22:21.449 --> 01:22:24.109
must address the demand side of the reliability equation

01:22:24.500 --> 01:22:26.850
And I think the efforts that y'all are currently undergoing

01:22:26.850 --> 01:22:29.829
at this time with, with the initiation of a task force

01:22:29.829 --> 01:22:35.319
and pilot program is uh, well, well well suited for

01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:37.760
the challenges we're tackling right now and we must

01:22:37.760 --> 01:22:39.760
address. I mean, we have a tremendous population in

01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:43.710
texas that can help us as we've seen um, this past

01:22:43.710 --> 01:22:46.229
week on the demand side of the reliability equation

01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:49.020
and um, I commend you for your leadership on this and

01:22:49.020 --> 01:22:51.489
look forward to to stay and engage with your efforts

01:22:51.500 --> 01:22:53.880
um, providing any feedback you may need as we move

01:22:53.890 --> 01:22:58.529
through the process. Thank you. Let me just say one

01:22:58.529 --> 01:23:00.869
other thing. Um, as we've sat through some of these

01:23:00.869 --> 01:23:03.789
workshop meetings, um there's been no party that has

01:23:03.789 --> 01:23:07.579
said, I don't want to do this, they have all been very

01:23:07.579 --> 01:23:14.020
positive about moving forward. Um there is uh uh there's

01:23:14.020 --> 01:23:16.909
some parties that want to keep it small um and I think

01:23:16.909 --> 01:23:19.689
there's uh there's a reason for that, but these things

01:23:19.689 --> 01:23:21.800
are going to expand to be something that's very valuable

01:23:21.810 --> 01:23:25.579
when we know that they're reliable and I'm appreciative

01:23:25.579 --> 01:23:28.140
of all the parties, there's a lot of profit potential

01:23:28.140 --> 01:23:30.609
out there, I'm sure they're excited. So I think an

01:23:30.609 --> 01:23:33.569
important thing to remember. Mr chairman is everybody

01:23:33.569 --> 01:23:36.529
has an interest to make this work. It's a question

01:23:36.539 --> 01:23:39.810
of degrees and frankly our job and the job of this

01:23:39.810 --> 01:23:43.289
task force with our focus is to beat them, is to marry

01:23:43.289 --> 01:23:46.340
up these parties to where the appropriate information

01:23:46.350 --> 01:23:50.819
is passed along to where ERCOT the T DSPs. Those distribution

01:23:50.819 --> 01:23:54.250
system managers have a vision of the scope that could

01:23:54.250 --> 01:23:57.850
be considered and on an individual feeder basis and

01:23:57.850 --> 01:24:02.020
substation and then on up the transmission, which regions

01:24:02.029 --> 01:24:06.130
areas could be considered to have aggregated DRS, again

01:24:06.130 --> 01:24:09.270
creating the sandbox as a part of the pilot. So that's

01:24:09.270 --> 01:24:12.119
where we want to get to. Uh huh. Like the progress

01:24:12.119 --> 01:24:14.520
they've made, I like the way you structured it, I like

01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:18.109
the potential uh and very excited to see where y'all

01:24:18.119 --> 01:24:20.979
go. Most importantly, I like what commissioner felt

01:24:20.979 --> 01:24:23.779
he just ended his statement with that at the end of

01:24:23.779 --> 01:24:26.789
the day for all the potential, all the opportunity

01:24:27.090 --> 01:24:32.989
at the end of the day, reliability is key and no part

01:24:32.989 --> 01:24:36.470
of this in any way will jeopardize reliability or in

01:24:36.470 --> 01:24:40.340
any way harm our ratepayers and our customers. And

01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:44.909
I know y'all will continue to keep that as the, the

01:24:44.930 --> 01:24:47.880
north star of the gods and in fact use this to increase

01:24:47.880 --> 01:24:51.779
reliability rather than jeopardize it. Like I said

01:24:51.779 --> 01:24:53.960
I very much like the way y'all have structured this

01:24:54.489 --> 01:25:00.310
I do want to remind everyone, I know y'all are all

01:25:00.310 --> 01:25:03.250
in agreement with this, that a lot of the resources

01:25:03.250 --> 01:25:06.039
at market that would work on this are also focused

01:25:06.039 --> 01:25:09.270
on E C R s and like I've said, I like the

01:25:09.270 --> 01:25:12.159
way all structures. So our partners and the DSPS can

01:25:12.159 --> 01:25:16.699
do a lot of the heavy lifting and can help use their

01:25:16.699 --> 01:25:20.439
resources to drive this forward. Uh, and I will remind

01:25:20.439 --> 01:25:23.060
ERCOT and our partners and everybody producing in this

01:25:23.060 --> 01:25:26.430
pilot project that is, this commission has reiterated

01:25:26.430 --> 01:25:29.600
numerous times. E C R S is paramount. That is a key

01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:34.050
project that must move forward uh, and must be delivered

01:25:34.140 --> 01:25:40.590
on time or early. Uh, So I, like I said, I'm excited

01:25:40.590 --> 01:25:41.979
about the potential, I'm excited about the progress

01:25:41.979 --> 01:25:44.050
made, but I don't want, I just want to remind folks

01:25:44.060 --> 01:25:48.649
that we don't want to jeopardize the CRS, I know everybody

01:25:48.649 --> 01:25:50.670
will work to make sure that that doesn't happen.

01:25:52.289 --> 01:25:56.119
All right. So with Mr Chairman, I just want to reiterate

01:25:56.119 --> 01:25:59.729
from the public. It appears we have broad based consensus

01:25:59.739 --> 01:26:02.800
on the approach delineated in the memo. Again, no formal

01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:05.770
vote, but we will hold a secondary workshop meeting

01:26:05.779 --> 01:26:09.250
with the intention to formalize a task force at the

01:26:09.250 --> 01:26:12.000
end of the month. Sounds good.

01:26:13.680 --> 01:26:15.399
All right, thank you, appreciate the work on that.

01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:19.579
We don't have anything for 17 through 24 brings us

01:26:19.579 --> 01:26:22.310
to item 25. (item:25) Commissioner Mcadams believe you have an

01:26:22.310 --> 01:26:22.939
update for

01:26:26.029 --> 01:26:31.020
sure. Yes, sir. Um, Southwest power Pool has been,

01:26:31.680 --> 01:26:37.159
has been like ERCOT active in managing um managing

01:26:37.159 --> 01:26:42.430
an energy transition, which is, they are under pressure

01:26:42.439 --> 01:26:47.189
as all our T. O. S are in providing enough dispatch

01:26:47.189 --> 01:26:53.079
ability to meet um to meet their grid planning uh conditions

01:26:53.079 --> 01:26:57.569
for resource adequacy. Um, there has been heated debate

01:26:57.579 --> 01:27:02.909
within the R. T. O. About what the, what the appropriate

01:27:02.920 --> 01:27:06.520
reliability metric should be, What should be counted

01:27:06.699 --> 01:27:12.880
in that uh, my memo articulated the summary of of what

01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:16.939
has transpired to date. Um, the Regional State Committee

01:27:16.949 --> 01:27:21.020
of the Southwest Power Pool will meet virtually on

01:27:21.020 --> 01:27:26.050
July 25 to take up the the policies

01:27:27.590 --> 01:27:32.310
contemplated in my memo. Um, as you saw the one in

01:27:32.310 --> 01:27:34.479
10 standard, the loss of Load probability on the one

01:27:34.479 --> 01:27:38.729
in 10 standard is still going to be the reliability

01:27:38.729 --> 01:27:43.689
metric of the Southwest power pool. It is uh, SPP staff

01:27:43.689 --> 01:27:48.960
has urged that it be enhanced from 12% to 15%. Spp

01:27:48.960 --> 01:27:51.369
staff believes we gotta do this sooner rather than

01:27:51.369 --> 01:27:57.020
later because because Micah miso is in a little bit

01:27:57.020 --> 01:28:00.229
of a tight condition and the prevailing concern is

01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:03.180
we're going to export all of the Spp capacity to my

01:28:03.180 --> 01:28:05.319
so because their capacity payments are now through

01:28:05.319 --> 01:28:09.229
the roof at cone and uh so we've got to create incentives

01:28:09.229 --> 01:28:13.359
and requirements to to keep that power in system so

01:28:13.359 --> 01:28:17.130
that we can meet any type of contingency event, Blue

01:28:17.130 --> 01:28:24.329
Sky Day or or whatever. Um There are voices in both

01:28:24.340 --> 01:28:30.180
the equivalent of TAC they're in spp that urge a gradual

01:28:30.369 --> 01:28:34.390
increase versus those that just want it imposed immediately

01:28:34.770 --> 01:28:38.229
There are costs associated with these increases. I

01:28:38.229 --> 01:28:40.680
would highlight for the commission that as of this

01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:46.060
time the texas based uh utilities who are subject to

01:28:46.069 --> 01:28:51.399
a capacity obligation Will meet the 15% requirement

01:28:51.770 --> 01:28:58.390
in terms of um what they have to procure. And so some

01:28:58.390 --> 01:29:04.210
are tighter than others though. Um So right now I'd

01:29:04.210 --> 01:29:07.090
like feedback or consensus from this commission

01:29:08.670 --> 01:29:13.520
on that decision so that I can consider that as I move

01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:18.239
forward to vote at the RSC And then also I'd like to

01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:21.670
highlight as an update the performance based accreditation

01:29:21.680 --> 01:29:25.079
as you see in the memo. It's very consistent with conversations

01:29:25.079 --> 01:29:25.899
that we've had here.

01:29:27.670 --> 01:29:32.899
Uh and it's integrated it is the policies are tied

01:29:32.909 --> 01:29:36.260
together Because again the performance-based accreditation

01:29:36.270 --> 01:29:41.779
will uh will impact your ability to meet that 15% um

01:29:41.789 --> 01:29:49.630
capacity obligation and it has the effect of improving

01:29:49.640 --> 01:29:53.729
the accreditation of intermittent resources on a system

01:29:53.739 --> 01:29:58.159
basis, but on an individual resource basis it actually

01:29:58.170 --> 01:30:03.880
devalues them um which which is an interesting factor

01:30:04.460 --> 01:30:09.100
So you're if if our utilities are going to go out and

01:30:09.100 --> 01:30:13.289
procure solar they're going to have to procure more

01:30:13.289 --> 01:30:19.479
of it two to wait that up to meet their capacity obligation

01:30:19.569 --> 01:30:23.699
under that accredited value and the same for wind,

01:30:23.710 --> 01:30:28.859
which is an interesting dynamic but I would also highlight

01:30:28.859 --> 01:30:33.189
as a part of the summary that S. P. P staff acknowledges

01:30:33.199 --> 01:30:37.880
the one in 10 loss of Load probability is a crude metric

01:30:38.560 --> 01:30:41.569
and is inadequate to meet the challenges of the future

01:30:41.750 --> 01:30:46.399
And they are trying to incorporate and analyze expected

01:30:46.409 --> 01:30:49.569
unserved energy. They all believe that this granular

01:30:49.579 --> 01:30:53.359
approach. This more granular approach will be necessary

01:30:53.369 --> 01:30:58.319
in a high intermittent resource mix. Um so as the wind

01:30:58.319 --> 01:31:01.939
penetration and solar penetration increases again,

01:31:01.939 --> 01:31:05.720
to give them a more granular view on a season by season

01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:10.050
basis rather than just at peak in the summer, they've

01:31:10.060 --> 01:31:13.039
got to start shifting to that. But right now they don't

01:31:13.039 --> 01:31:17.239
have a plan uh formalized to do it. So I want to

01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:20.409
highlight that nuance because I still believe for our

01:31:20.409 --> 01:31:24.029
purposes here in ERCOT we should be evaluating that

01:31:24.039 --> 01:31:29.409
expected unserved energy um as a part of our own reliability

01:31:29.420 --> 01:31:32.449
and resource Adequacy goals that we are deliberating

01:31:32.449 --> 01:31:37.460
on now. Um so with that I'll open it up for feedback

01:31:37.470 --> 01:31:39.579
because I'd love to hear any thoughts, thank you for

01:31:39.590 --> 01:31:43.369
playing that out. Uh and I think you you hit 2, 2

01:31:43.369 --> 01:31:46.600
thoughts, uh you hit the most important part, any increase

01:31:46.600 --> 01:31:49.560
in reserve margin and thus costs must be tied to enhance

01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:53.479
accreditation. Those two must be co joined two

01:31:55.159 --> 01:31:58.550
and designed so that any accreditation given to any

01:31:58.550 --> 01:31:59.170
resource

01:32:01.050 --> 01:32:05.140
most reflects reality. Uh there's lots of theories

01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:08.640
and models out there but it's and it's there's no easy

01:32:08.640 --> 01:32:12.560
solution, nobody has a silver bullet for this but any

01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:17.409
increase in cost needs to be tied to increased granularity

01:32:17.409 --> 01:32:21.659
specificity on and making sure that the accreditation

01:32:21.659 --> 01:32:25.859
matches the reality on the ground, whether that's clouds

01:32:25.859 --> 01:32:28.140
in west texas over solar when the loads in the east

01:32:28.149 --> 01:32:33.810
or thermal outages or any of it needs to reflect reality

01:32:33.819 --> 01:32:37.369
and as you said, nobody knows nobody had solved this

01:32:37.369 --> 01:32:40.500
globally. This is a, this is a challenge for the future

01:32:40.500 --> 01:32:42.880
of a more intermittent heavy

01:32:44.550 --> 01:32:49.239
100 so and I know and I look forward, I know you've

01:32:49.239 --> 01:32:51.710
been working on it with updating the sarah and see

01:32:51.710 --> 01:32:52.220
er

01:32:53.850 --> 01:32:57.359
I know that's in progress but it ties in neatly with

01:32:57.359 --> 01:33:00.569
this and look forward to hearing continued updates

01:33:00.569 --> 01:33:05.229
on that because that's it's hand in glove with these

01:33:05.229 --> 01:33:08.079
efforts and and these initiatives. Thanks for looking

01:33:08.079 --> 01:33:12.390
out. Sure, thank you Commissioner mike Adams for that

01:33:12.390 --> 01:33:16.039
update um and and highlighting um you know the impacts

01:33:16.039 --> 01:33:20.050
that are being felt in my, so right now um there is

01:33:20.050 --> 01:33:21.949
a lot going on in my so and at some point I'll

01:33:21.949 --> 01:33:24.369
be probably coming back with with some feedback and

01:33:24.380 --> 01:33:29.130
and um you know guidance from from you as well on some

01:33:29.130 --> 01:33:31.399
of the matters that are being addressed there. Um you

01:33:31.399 --> 01:33:33.850
know as Commissioner Mcadams highlighted there at a

01:33:33.850 --> 01:33:36.479
capacity shortfall um they're looking to make some

01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:40.399
changes to their own market um construct at this time

01:33:40.409 --> 01:33:43.979
to help ensure reliability in the future. Um capacity

01:33:43.979 --> 01:33:47.630
prices have have hit cone, I think it's like $236 at

01:33:47.630 --> 01:33:52.329
cone. Uh 5000 MW of retirements over the last few years

01:33:52.340 --> 01:33:55.409
um tremendous impacts there in my so that are being

01:33:55.409 --> 01:33:58.520
felt not only in my so but at other markets um throughout

01:33:58.520 --> 01:34:01.789
the country in the world. Um Commissioner Mcadams,

01:34:01.789 --> 01:34:05.029
you highlighted that there would be um an impact to

01:34:05.029 --> 01:34:07.880
consumer costs. Um can you touch on a little bit more

01:34:07.880 --> 01:34:12.920
about what that means for our texas spp participating

01:34:12.920 --> 01:34:16.199
utilities and their customers. So as of this time,

01:34:16.199 --> 01:34:23.310
if they moved to a 15% uh P. R. M. Um Which

01:34:23.310 --> 01:34:27.920
is their capacity obligation from 12%. Our utilities

01:34:27.930 --> 01:34:31.550
would be able to comply with that due to their own

01:34:31.550 --> 01:34:34.579
contracted resources and available resources as part

01:34:34.579 --> 01:34:38.279
of their system, so there would not be an immediate

01:34:38.289 --> 01:34:45.859
impact um right now I because the two policies that

01:34:45.859 --> 01:34:49.260
are under consideration are tied and because they're

01:34:49.270 --> 01:34:52.000
the performance based accreditation is going to be

01:34:52.010 --> 01:34:56.279
adopted incrementally it's going to be eased in um

01:34:56.289 --> 01:35:02.270
to the system over the next five years. Uh I tend to

01:35:02.270 --> 01:35:05.750
sit in the camp to where we need a more gradual escalation

01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:09.159
in terms of the reserve margin. Again there was a compromise

01:35:09.170 --> 01:35:13.649
um within the cost allocation work group which is the

01:35:13.649 --> 01:35:19.859
subsidiary of the RSC to ease it in at 14% next year

01:35:20.239 --> 01:35:26.100
Um as a capacity obligation and then 15 I'm sorry 14%

01:35:26.100 --> 01:35:34.449
by 2024. Um Thank you. Um So a two step process um

01:35:35.539 --> 01:35:39.430
Over the next two years I'm I tend to be in that

01:35:39.430 --> 01:35:42.079
camp because I think we need to see how the development

01:35:42.090 --> 01:35:45.109
of the two policies work together to see ultimately

01:35:45.109 --> 01:35:47.369
what is baked into the 15%.

01:35:49.289 --> 01:35:53.699
Exactly exactly. So at least let's on ramp into this

01:35:53.699 --> 01:35:57.500
rather than just You know take a quantum leap to 15%

01:35:57.510 --> 01:36:01.970
and then shocking off people um uh be said for scaling

01:36:01.970 --> 01:36:03.229
into any issues.

01:36:04.829 --> 01:36:08.770
Thank you. Um I would just a few comments here. Um

01:36:08.779 --> 01:36:13.090
First of all um it's great that uh that you're working

01:36:13.100 --> 01:36:16.039
uh with the S. V. P. With the other commissioners and

01:36:16.050 --> 01:36:18.729
and the other markets like commissioner Cobos and my

01:36:18.729 --> 01:36:21.659
so um they're learning a lot of things like we are

01:36:21.670 --> 01:36:24.390
they got a broader geographic region, they've got broader

01:36:24.390 --> 01:36:27.300
diversity of their resources and we can learn some

01:36:27.300 --> 01:36:29.199
things from them and I appreciate you bringing those

01:36:29.199 --> 01:36:33.529
lessons back and um and bringing them to the to the

01:36:33.529 --> 01:36:37.810
table to discuss. Um E L. C. C. Is is definitely a

01:36:37.819 --> 01:36:41.319
uh a metric that I think all of these markets are moving

01:36:41.319 --> 01:36:45.010
towards. Um as is E U E. Um I don't think there's

01:36:45.010 --> 01:36:47.779
a silver bullet yet, but we're going to be changing

01:36:47.779 --> 01:36:51.430
these types of metrics as we go. And these resource

01:36:51.630 --> 01:36:55.819
mix mix is change. Um The one thing that I would say

01:36:55.819 --> 01:37:00.079
about going to 15%. Um We we obviously we have some

01:37:00.090 --> 01:37:03.960
some consumers in S. P. P. A small portion of the geographic

01:37:03.960 --> 01:37:06.880
region and we have to look after our customers. I would

01:37:06.880 --> 01:37:09.430
say that if if we think there are no added cost to

01:37:09.430 --> 01:37:13.880
them that the 15 going to 15% would probably be okay

01:37:13.890 --> 01:37:18.329
Um especially because if you look at the number of

01:37:18.329 --> 01:37:21.829
megawatts that would be in a 51,000 megawatt system

01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:25.260
it's just not that much. So 500 megawatts versus 1000

01:37:25.260 --> 01:37:29.529
megawatts. And um most people are building 1000 build

01:37:29.529 --> 01:37:32.590
500 megawatt wind farms out there. And you know, anyway

01:37:32.590 --> 01:37:36.640
so I would think that if that would get uh the encouragement

01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:39.039
for more dispatch herbal resources in some of those

01:37:39.039 --> 01:37:42.390
areas, Let's say guys, we're gonna need 1000 more and

01:37:42.399 --> 01:37:49.520
uh and go with jump to 15. Um I understand. I just

01:37:49.520 --> 01:37:51.789
stare at the other commissioners who are staring at

01:37:51.800 --> 01:37:54.810
the net deficit in their own systems and I'm like,

01:37:54.819 --> 01:37:57.979
ouch, you know, that's that's gonna hurt. So, but I

01:37:57.989 --> 01:38:02.729
appreciate the position. Yeah, but reliability is paramount

01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.729
Alright, thank you for laying that out. Thank you for

01:38:08.060 --> 01:38:11.180
putting in the work too, be there and dig into those

01:38:11.180 --> 01:38:15.829
issues. I know it's it's a it's a lot of work Appreciate

01:38:15.829 --> 01:38:19.529
that we've already taken up Adam 26. We don't have

01:38:19.529 --> 01:38:23.020
I don't have anything for the rest of the agenda so

01:38:23.020 --> 01:38:25.750
that we will not have closed session. So that brings

01:38:25.750 --> 01:38:28.529
us to the conclusion of today's meeting. May I just

01:38:28.529 --> 01:38:33.819
say one thing um that I was disappointed that our chairman

01:38:33.819 --> 01:38:36.159
and one of our other commissioners were tied today

01:38:36.170 --> 01:38:41.689
um the memo that um that Connie sent out said that

01:38:41.689 --> 01:38:44.029
there was a long standing tradition in this commission

01:38:44.319 --> 01:38:47.930
maybe two decades that in july and august that ties

01:38:47.930 --> 01:38:52.260
not be worn. And I just want to note That you have

01:38:52.270 --> 01:38:56.310
August four and August 25 to redeem yourself and hopefully

01:38:56.310 --> 01:39:00.829
you will take that opportunity. Thank you.

01:39:02.819 --> 01:39:03.670
That was optional

01:39:06.449 --> 01:39:07.289
details.

01:39:10.119 --> 01:39:12.220
More importantly, there are a lot of traditions that

01:39:12.220 --> 01:39:13.979
this commission has been very good at upending.

01:39:17.220 --> 01:39:19.470
Well, jimmy, don't worry, you can count on me to not

01:39:19.470 --> 01:39:24.880
wear a tie fashions change. Alright, There's definitely

01:39:24.880 --> 01:39:27.050
no further business to come before the commission is

01:39:27.050 --> 01:39:29.699
meeting the public Utility commission of texas is hereby

01:39:29.710 --> 01:39:30.619
adjourned.