WEBVTT

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Good morning. This meeting of the Public utility commission

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of texas will come to order to consider matters have

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been duly posted with the secretary of State of texas

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for august 25th 2022 for the record. My name is Peter

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Lake and with me today are, Will Mcadams, Lori Cobos

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Jimmy Glotfelty, and for the first time at the dais 

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Kathleen Jackson, even though she's already been with

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us for a few weeks, this is my first chance to formally

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introduce our newest commissioner, commissioner Jackson. Uh she's

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a chemical engineer by training. So take me at my word

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when she's a very sharp lady and of course she was

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most recently at a director at the texas Water Development

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Board uh among the many initiatives she led at the water

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Development board, she was an outstanding leader on

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water conservation. Which is why I'm asking her to

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take the lead on all things energy conservation and

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energy efficiency. For the public utility commission

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Uh water and electricity are certainly different resources

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but the principles of conservation and efficiency are

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very similar. Don't waste critical resources and get

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the most out of every bit of your existing resources

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whether it's water or power. Um, commissioner Jackson, your experience

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expertise and commitment to our critical resources

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and make you the ideal person to lead these efforts

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Welcome aboard. We're thrilled to have you

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thank you chairman Lake and to our fellow commissioners

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Um it's it's just a very much an honor to be able

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to have this opportunity to be here. Very much appreciate

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governor Abbott appointed me to this position. I really

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look forward to the work ahead. I think you've done

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a great job so far? It's been uh it's been very much

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of a challenge. We all know that people need a reliable

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water supply and they also need a reliable power supply

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And so I'm I'm very much hoping that what I can kind

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of bring to this work effort is uh kind of like that

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scientific analytical mind. And also I think, you know

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one of the greatest things that we have going for us

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in texas is that we care for one another. And you know

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as I traveled around Texas particularly to small communities

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and my time at the Water Development Board, I heard

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from people across the state and I think in so many

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ways we care, we care about the same things, we have

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the same objectives and we just want to make sure that

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our Children and our Children's Children, you know

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have the power they need, they have the water they

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need and that they can enjoy the quality of life that

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that we have today. So I'm very honored to have this

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opportunity. I look forward to the work ahead. It is

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a collaborative effort. I look forward to uh to reaching

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out and uh learning and hearing people's thoughts and

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ideas as we move forward and making a more more resilient

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Texas So thank you so much

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In terms of order of agenda, we will be taking up item

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14 before right before item nine today, which brings

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us to the consent agenda. Mr Journeay Could you please walk

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us through the items on today's consent? Good morning

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Commissioners by individual about the following items

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were placed on your consent agenda. 2, 3, 4, 7, 10, 11, 12, 20, 21

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22 24 25 26, 27 31, 40 43 and 44.

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Thank you, sir. That's a that's a good that's a very

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good looks well done across the board. Uh Is there

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a motion to approve

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all in favor say? Aye. None opposed motion passes.

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Thank you Mr. Journeay.

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That brings us to our first uh

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listed item on the agenda for today, which is public

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comment. Uh Oral comments related to a specific agenda

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item will be heard when that item is taken up. This

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segment is for general comments only. When we do get

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to oral comments on specific agenda items, stakeholders

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should not approach the table unless oral argument

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has been granted or they have been invited by a commissioner

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as always, speakers in public comment will be limited

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to three minutes each. Uh Mr Journeay, do we have anyone from

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the public signed up to speak today? Yes, sir, we have

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a pretty good list today. First on the list is Cyrus Reed.

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and so I just want to know this fancy new clock we

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have here. So when I screw up everybody in the room

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will know it been waiting a long time for public acknowledgement

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That does that apply to us as well. Does that apply

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to us as well?

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Thank you. Good morning, Cyrus Reed. I'm here on behalf

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of the Lone Star type of the Sierra club. I'd first

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like to welcome you commissioner, I know that the Sierra

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Club worked very closely with you at Water Development board

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on uh water conservation issues and I'm thrilled that

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you've been tasked with looking at energy efficiency

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and I guess that would include demand response issues

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Um I'm here with a lot of people behind me um who

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are very concerned about rising bills in the state

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of texas and the fact that we don't think the commission

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up to now has really centered solutions that will help

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residential consumers with these rising bills. Uh Most

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people obviously can't come here on a thursday at 9

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30 most working people, so we have a number of organizations

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here to talk about some of these issues um in december

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of 2021 in case, you know, I'm sort of looking at you

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because you're the you're the newbie um In December

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of 2021. This commission took action and adopted a

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blueprint that blueprint included one item that's of

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importance to us, which is to look at the energy efficiency

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and demand response programs of the eight private utilities

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Uh no one's taken action yet. So we, the Sierra club

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did file a petition for rulemaking earlier this month

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We appreciate the fact that the commission as they

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should under the administrative procedures act, has

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now opened a new docket Uh, So any stakeholder that's

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listening can file if they like our petition, say you

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like it, if you don't say you don't like it and say

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why you don't like it. But our petition, what it would

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do is double the peak demand goals that are required

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of utilities and also increase the energy efficiency

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the overall savings goals, both for summer and winter

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It would also limit the performance bonuses that utilities

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currently can earn if you look even at some of the

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things on your agenda today without mentioning them

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specifically. Um the performance bonuses in general

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for utilities have crept up and up year after year

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to now. They're about a third of the budget. That's

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something we need to deal with. That's not fair to

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the ratepayers who are paying for those programs. If

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you look at other public utilities like the two leading

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one Cps Energy and Austin Energy, they're already meeting

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the goals that we've suggested that this petition.

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So we think private utility should should have similar

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goals. You guys have a lot of room to operate. I do

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realize um, that there will be a discussion in October

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on this topic, but I want to urge you to look at

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both 25.181, which are the goals and 25.182, which

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is how we pay for the goals. Both of those need to

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be opened up when we need to address both of them.

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Um, I had some really important points to make at the

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end. Oh in general, we're concerned about um any solutions

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to the grid that's gonna put the burden on residential

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ratepayers without offering us solutions on how to

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lower those potential costs through energy efficiency

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demand response, distributed generation. So just think

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about those things as we go into the future and with

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that all and my two seconds, one second gone landed

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it on a dime cyrus

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for the benefit of speakers coming up. I'll just note

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that the light will turn yellow when you have one minute

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left uh, in your time. Next up is Craig Nazor.

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Hello Commission. My name is Craig Nazor and I have

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a doctorate in music and didn't make me a lot of money

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but I've had a great life and I have a modest retirement

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now living in Austin to get the doctorate I lived

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for six years in Austin in a house with no air conditioning

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That was interesting, but I'm here. Uh, so when I was

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retired, I finally got enough money to buy a house and

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lo and behold lawyered Landsman in midland Odessa died

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A guy by the name of Charles Musset, who was, I

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was an heir to, I never met the guy, so suddenly I

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get this oil money. So what did I do? I spend it

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on energy efficiency from my house, I got triple pane

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windows and there are rebates on all this. I got a

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metal roof, I got extra insulation blown in. I gotta

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sear 27 air conditioning and heating system because

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I lived in a house with no air conditioning for six

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years in Austin, I knew what it's like and yes, climate

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change is real. I know it's real and so I'm trying

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to plan for it. So then what happened is solar comes

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around we have a really good energy company. I got

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solar on top of my house in january. My energy bill

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when they looked at my house he said my goodness you

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have the most solar, you have the most efficient house

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we've seen. And I said well I want as many solar cells

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as you can get within the deal that Austin had. So

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I got 10 solar cells. My bill in June, my electric

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bill was $10.

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My bill in July was $10.

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We need to let everybody in on this. We can't not everyone

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is gonna be lucky enough to have a lawyer, Landesman

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midland Odessa who lands a bunch of money on top of

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you. I was lucky, I was just just like this is like

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manna from heaven. But I know climate change is real

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and I know people are suffering my house by the way

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before the solar cells during winter storm Uri it never

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got below 55°. Other people in the neighborhood they

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had pipes freeze in the house. All my I had a fireplace

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all my firewood I gave it to all my neighbors.

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We need to do better and we need to help the people

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of texas. We need to help people become more energy

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efficient and I know it doesn't fall in the plan of

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an energy company that's just trying to sell more energy

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but but that's got to change. You know people you can't

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be just unlimited greedy. You know you have to care

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like you said you have to care about the other people

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other people in texas, our friends, our neighbors.

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Thank you very much. Thank you sir.

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Next up is norma Cortes.

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Good morning.

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I am a retired Texas state employee thank you. Living

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on a on a fixed income. So the bills are are a

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priority for me. So when my utility bill doubles it's

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difficult for me to manage everything else and I have

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to set aside things that I need because I have to be

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able to pay my utility bill. With this, I ask that

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the P. U. C. Do something about the fact that is out

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of control. The PUC has the power to help citizens

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advocate for us but you aren't doing that. We need

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for you to do a better job with that and support the

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changes that need to happen. We all know that fossil

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fuels  cause energy bills to be higher that's

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a given. And with climate change present in all of

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our lives those those fossil fuels are getting more

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and more expensive. And who's profiting profiting by

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by those higher costs the big companies, the energy

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companies, the CEOs of those companies. I'm not

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I do everything that my utility company asked me to

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do. I raise my thermostat so that I run my A. C

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At 82 degrees all day long. All day long. My family

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came over to visit me the other day and said it's really

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hot in here. Said well you know I do what I have

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to do and I limit my water. You said I limit everything

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so that I don't have high utility bills but my bill

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still doubled and it isn't because I'm over using,

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it's because the cost is so high. We need for you to

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do something about it and we need for you to do something

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about it Now.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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Next up is Jordan's Barton.

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Mhm. Good morning Commissioners. Um I come from a little

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bit of a younger generation, evidently walking in with

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my long hair and earrings. But uh I was a resident

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of Austin about a year and a half ago right now. I'm

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an undergraduate at Harvard, I come back because my

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brother is a worker for the texas campaign for the

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environment. He invited me to speak today because he

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knows that a year and a half ago when I was a

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resident of Austin back in west campus, lived at 27

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04 Rio grande street. I was a very personal witness

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to Uri, as many Texans and many Austinites were uh

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that meant like many austinites. We spent uh, me and

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my partner four days without running water without

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heat, with our pipes running over. And what many would

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compare to despotic and foreign regimes, bread lines

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spending miles and miles outside of our houses, outside

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of target to acquire basic materials, leaving people

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like myself, uh, coming back nearly in frost been our

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long hair now soaked with ice. So the situation was

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far different. Um, and now returning and seeing how

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the situation has uh, evolved in my home state. I say

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that I'm radically disappointed because I'm disappointed

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because there's a fundamental lack of public accountability

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That lack of public accountability manifest itself

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most triumphantly when you have masses have to come

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in here with polls with monopoly money streamed across

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them to represent and make a symbolic exchange, that

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there are people that are spending money unless amounts

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of money on rate hikes, someone doubling sometimes

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seeing tripling of their bills. We know that there's

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tens of thousands of Texans that aren't here today

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as well, that uh, like are in counties like Brownsville

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some of the poorest counties in texas that can't be

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here because they can't find childcare, they can't

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find the proper resources, they would need to take

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a thursday morning off. And yet we come trying to represent

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those people who feel voiceless, who feel yet still

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powerless returning to this scenario returning to my

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home state. I guess the one thing I know statistics

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I know poring over information about how corporate

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greed has affected the state has affected ERCOT has

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affected people like me who are in the bread lines

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who are watching the frigid cold take us over. Is that

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the main thing I guess I'd like to impose is that public

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accountability runs out at one point. there is a limit

00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.580
from which people, I think reasonable people citizens

00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:35.639
in this city and in other in other places in texas

00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.779
are willing to work through these public forums to

00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:42.539
work through this discourse when they don't have basic

00:16:42.549 --> 00:16:46.409
utilities, human rights, the means to those human rights

00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:48.649
obtained in their homes, the right to comfort the right

00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:51.740
to clean water, clean air. So I just begged that the

00:16:51.740 --> 00:16:54.139
council realized and then these commissioners realize

00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:57.470
something that's rather important to me coming especially

00:16:57.470 --> 00:17:00.059
from so far away and returning to my home state wanting

00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:01.929
the best for and wanting the best for its ordinary

00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:04.759
and working class people that that public accountability

00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.779
does expire and that this commission in seeking public

00:17:08.779 --> 00:17:12.269
legitimacy and seeking to uphold that legitimacy needs

00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:15.710
to respond to that public demand urgently. It's not

00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.450
something that can be put on a further docket It can't

00:17:18.450 --> 00:17:21.059
be discussed in a Phase three plan. It has to be acted

00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:23.710
upon now because if it's not acted upon, people like

00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:27.309
me will continue to return to texas and see the spiraling

00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:29.619
lack of public accountability and public legitimacy

00:17:29.619 --> 00:17:31.720
that's placed upon the burden of these commissioners

00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.500
when they aren't able to respond to the basic needs

00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:37.549
of of citizens and Austinites. Thanks, thank you.

00:17:41.529 --> 00:17:43.369
Next up is Adrienne Shelly.

00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.029
Hello? Yes, thank you Adrienne Shelly, I'm the Texas

00:18:04.029 --> 00:18:07.400
Director of Public Citizen, appreciate the opportunity

00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:10.289
to speak today. Thank you for having us. Uh just want

00:18:10.289 --> 00:18:12.880
to make three points and I'll try to be brief because

00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.819
I think you've probably heard some of this before.

00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:18.809
Uh first of all, people are suffering right bills have

00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:22.279
increased. Um, and you know, they don't really see

00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.190
a solution in sight here. Um we've seen in the dependent

00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.609
analysis of that collectively, we've spent $3 billion

00:18:30.609 --> 00:18:35.839
more on energy this year. Um and it hasn't bought us

00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:40.150
a more reliable grid. Um It's it's really unfortunate

00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.170
and you know, there's a lot of people who can't be

00:18:42.170 --> 00:18:46.230
here today. And so um I just want you to to consider

00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:50.750
those voices as well. Um Second point, we have a solution

00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:54.329
right, Commissioner Jackson, thank you for for being

00:18:54.329 --> 00:18:57.509
here and for your service to Texas Um you've got history

00:18:57.509 --> 00:19:01.029
and conservation as you said and our solution lies

00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.390
in energy conservation and energy efficiency demand

00:19:04.390 --> 00:19:08.420
response. We have the solutions at hand. So we encourage

00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:11.339
you to, you know, take a serious look at all the proposals

00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:13.970
that are out there, including the Sierra Club petition

00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:17.559
Um you know, every uh a little bit of energy that we

00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:20.970
save is energy that we don't have to produce. Right

00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:25.519
And three is listen to the people, right? The public

00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:28.279
utility commission has done an excellent job of this

00:19:28.289 --> 00:19:31.710
in the past 20 years ago when we did the market redesign

00:19:31.710 --> 00:19:34.430
there was a listening tour uh you know, around the

00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:38.480
state, people were paid to attend and you know, what

00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.549
do we get out of it? We got one of the most

00:19:40.549 --> 00:19:44.799
sophisticated uh energy markets in the country and

00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:47.779
you know, look at the results, right? We had more wind

00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:50.740
you know, in just a couple of years after that and

00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:54.099
it turned us into a global leader uh in wind energy

00:19:54.109 --> 00:19:58.519
So those opportunities are still there, right? Um so

00:19:58.529 --> 00:20:00.539
you know, again, we appreciate the opportunity. There's

00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.670
only a small handful of us here today, you know, our

00:20:03.670 --> 00:20:06.730
organizations have heard from from thousands more people

00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:08.970
who share our concerns and you all know that there

00:20:08.970 --> 00:20:12.619
are millions more beyond that who are impacted. Um

00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:16.819
so thank you again, you all have the ability to make

00:20:16.819 --> 00:20:20.400
change and if you do, you know, you won't have to hear

00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.279
us say the same things over and over again. So thanks

00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:23.900
a lot.

00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:30.789
Next step is Susana Almanza.

00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.690
Good morning. Good morning chair

00:20:44.690 --> 00:20:47.009
and commissioners, thank you for giving me the opportunity

00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:50.940
to speak today. I'm Susana Almanza with and also president

00:20:50.950 --> 00:20:53.940
of the Montopolis neighborhood association. And I just

00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:57.569
want to say that during Storm Uri uh my family got

00:20:57.569 --> 00:21:01.000
really traumatized. My elderly sister ha who lives miles

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.339
away from me unfortunately hadn't powered her phone

00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:07.130
She had one cell left. She called me, she told me she

00:21:07.130 --> 00:21:10.170
was gonna put on the stove and the oven to to keep

00:21:10.170 --> 00:21:12.450
her house warm. I told her to be careful, make sure

00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:16.349
she had a pot of boiling water there. I tried to call

00:21:16.349 --> 00:21:19.740
her later, her phone was dead. I couldn't get to her

00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.460
I was so worried the roads were icy so I couldn't even

00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:25.329
travel. My elderly brother and his wife and she's very

00:21:25.329 --> 00:21:29.509
frail and ill and dove springs, I called them also 

00:21:29.509 --> 00:21:32.829
and there was the same problem uh reaching out to them

00:21:32.829 --> 00:21:36.450
later on their cell phone was dead. Uh and worried

00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:39.589
about how are they gonna be surviving all of this time

00:21:39.589 --> 00:21:42.750
luckily a neighbor who had a fireplace took them in

00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:47.599
Uh My sister did endure three days without any electricity

00:21:47.750 --> 00:21:50.680
The power came during those three days came on for

00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.230
30 minutes. So she was able to power her phone. Uh

00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:56.440
I mean a few bars and then called me to let me

00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.029
know things were alright that she was making, it was

00:21:59.029 --> 00:22:03.819
very cold. She was surviving but I feel really traumatized

00:22:03.819 --> 00:22:06.769
because I couldn't reach my my siblings. I couldn't

00:22:06.769 --> 00:22:09.789
reach them were so far the ice, the roads were icy

00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:14.339
Uh and when I think about how we need to fix that

00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:17.869
grid to make sure we have doubled the demand peak so

00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:20.789
that when the next winter storm comes or even during

00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:25.559
the heat our people will be able to survive because

00:22:25.569 --> 00:22:28.390
during the inflation now we're having to pay more for

00:22:28.390 --> 00:22:33.680
utilities. Uh it's very hard uh to live in um in all

00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.680
the different cities because it's so costly just paying

00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.849
for rent and transportation and then utilities. And

00:22:39.849 --> 00:22:42.390
so I think it's very important that we make sure that

00:22:42.390 --> 00:22:45.559
we have the programs in place to make sure that the

00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.549
poor and the working poor don't freeze to death uh

00:22:49.549 --> 00:22:53.230
and don't die from heat exhaustion and other things

00:22:53.230 --> 00:22:55.339
And so I think it's very important. So I bring the

00:22:55.339 --> 00:22:58.710
message here on a very personal level from all the

00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.589
poor and the working poor people uh that can't be here

00:23:01.589 --> 00:23:04.170
today who have two or three jobs that are struggling

00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:08.529
to exist uh to survive. But to make sure that that

00:23:08.529 --> 00:23:11.339
grid is fixed. That we got the programs and pace that

00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:14.099
we use efficiency and you've heard from other people

00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:17.490
who have generated more information but I just wanted

00:23:17.490 --> 00:23:20.890
to give my testimony on that part and appreciate you

00:23:20.890 --> 00:23:24.349
giving me the opportunity. Thank you.

00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.059
Next step is Emma Past

00:23:43.849 --> 00:23:47.089
morning Chairman Lake and Commissioners. My name is

00:23:47.089 --> 00:23:50.329
Emma Past 'm a resident of round rock texas. Um

00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:53.950
a customer of reliant energy and I'm within encore

00:23:53.950 --> 00:23:57.009
service territory. Um, I'm here today to urge you all

00:23:57.019 --> 00:24:00.630
to update the energy efficiency standards for the state

00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.450
um, in order to fix the grid and to help people like

00:24:04.450 --> 00:24:07.160
you and I lower our energy bills that we pay every

00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.299
month. Growing back, growing up in a single parent

00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.240
household, my family was always really big on saving

00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:17.299
money. Um, My parents taught me from a really early

00:24:17.299 --> 00:24:20.579
age the importance of saving energy. They had us pay

00:24:20.579 --> 00:24:23.240
them five cents every time we didn't turn a light off

00:24:23.250 --> 00:24:26.539
in the house. Um, and they taught us about the importance

00:24:26.539 --> 00:24:30.019
of things like insulation. I remember being seven or

00:24:30.029 --> 00:24:32.390
eight years old in elementary school and watching my

00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:35.529
dad carry these huge sheets of pink insulation into

00:24:35.529 --> 00:24:38.490
the house from the car to install them in our attic

00:24:38.490 --> 00:24:41.279
and our walls, they were bigger than I was at the time

00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:43.430
and they looked like cotton candy. So I asked him you

00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:45.900
know what they were and he told me about it. He told

00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.599
me that you know when we use our air conditioning,

00:24:48.609 --> 00:24:51.349
um, it creates cold air in the house and if we put

00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:53.460
this insulation in our walls, it'll help keep that

00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:56.170
cold air in. So instead of having to pay the power

00:24:56.170 --> 00:25:00.309
company to pump the house full of a. C. 123 times in

00:25:00.309 --> 00:25:03.609
a row that A. C. Will stay inside and therefore will

00:25:03.609 --> 00:25:06.619
use less electricity and will have a lower energy bill

00:25:06.619 --> 00:25:09.690
to pay at seven or eight years old. That made a lot

00:25:09.690 --> 00:25:12.319
of sense to me and it still makes sense to me today

00:25:12.329 --> 00:25:15.690
We need programs across the state to enable more consumers

00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:18.329
to do things like that to their homes to update their

00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:20.990
windows, their doors to add insulation to their addicts

00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:24.369
and walls. Because right now we're seeing skyrocketing

00:25:24.369 --> 00:25:28.210
electric bills across the entire state. I have solar

00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:31.390
power on my house out in round rock that I rent. And

00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.829
before the grid crisis my energy bill was maybe $80

00:25:35.829 --> 00:25:43.059
a month tops. Now I'm paying $130, a whopping 50 to

00:25:43.059 --> 00:25:46.299
$60 more every single month for something as simple

00:25:46.299 --> 00:25:49.779
as electricity. Now I'm fortunate enough to be able

00:25:49.779 --> 00:25:52.099
to pay that amount. But not everybody in the state

00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:55.150
of texas is. We have cities in texas that have some

00:25:55.150 --> 00:25:58.279
of the highest poverty rates in the nation. And we're

00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.609
hearing reports from people all across the state that

00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:03.619
they can't pay their bills that they need help or that

00:26:03.619 --> 00:26:06.279
paying their bills is forcing them to stop buying fresh

00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.349
produce at the grocery store. Nobody should be in that

00:26:09.349 --> 00:26:12.950
position furthermore without energy efficiency, our

00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:15.950
state will continue to rely upon power plants that

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.599
pollute Texas is full of old aging, polluting power

00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:22.349
plants, power plants that don't have updated pollution

00:26:22.349 --> 00:26:25.210
control technology and the more energy we use, the

00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:28.279
less energy efficiency we have, the more those power

00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:30.500
plants produce power for us and the more those power

00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:33.630
plants pollute. The Parish power plant out in Fort Bend

00:26:33.630 --> 00:26:37.640
near Houston. It takes 179 people's lives every

00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.019
single year. If we were to reduce the amount of energy

00:26:41.019 --> 00:26:43.650
that we use across the state, we would have to run

00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:46.440
that power plant less often and therefore save the

00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.170
lives of Texans. Please update the energy efficiency

00:26:49.170 --> 00:26:52.210
goals to save Texans money on our bills. Thank you

00:26:57.319 --> 00:26:59.869
Next step is Alex Ortiz.

00:27:07.789 --> 00:27:10.619
Good morning Commissioners. My name is Alex Ortiz.

00:27:10.630 --> 00:27:13.819
I'm the water resources specialist at the Lone Star

00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:15.730
chapter of this here club. So this is a little out

00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:18.410
of my element, but welcome Commissioner Jackson and

00:27:18.410 --> 00:27:20.579
thank you for all your work with the Water Development

00:27:20.579 --> 00:27:24.349
Board. I'm just here and really echo the points that

00:27:24.349 --> 00:27:27.529
my colleagues from other organizations have made with

00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:30.680
skyrocketing bills and climate change on the horizon

00:27:30.690 --> 00:27:34.539
We know we can only expect the strain and pressure

00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:38.980
on the Texas electricity grid to get worse. Um, you

00:27:38.980 --> 00:27:41.309
know, there have been reports from the state climatologist

00:27:41.309 --> 00:27:45.400
office that show that drastic weather pattern changes

00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:49.869
from drought to extreme heat to extreme winter storms

00:27:49.869 --> 00:27:54.430
to hurricanes. We're gonna see more impacts and we're

00:27:54.430 --> 00:28:00.269
going to see them fairly soon. So taking action on

00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.269
being able to, you know, sustain the electric grid

00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:07.940
here in texas is really important. And I know that

00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:10.970
you know, like me, so many people worry about their

00:28:10.970 --> 00:28:15.599
families in times of crisis, and during winter storm

00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:19.329
Uri for example, I was, you know, just so worried about

00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:22.259
my two grandmothers, both of them live alone and one

00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:25.650
of one of them, my paternal grandmother did fall and

00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:28.200
slip and just bruised her hip, thankfully nothing was

00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.759
broken but because she had no electricity in her house

00:28:31.769 --> 00:28:35.089
and she was walking out to her car in Del Rio texas

00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:38.210
her ground is frozen over, she slips and falls on the

00:28:38.210 --> 00:28:40.559
way to the car and thankfully, you know, we have a

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.259
lot of family in the area. Someone was able to get

00:28:43.269 --> 00:28:46.940
there and help her up and help her inside and help

00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.670
her stay warm. But there are so many people across

00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:53.730
the state that don't have, you know, people that don't

00:28:53.730 --> 00:28:58.690
have the community that they need to be able to muddle

00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:02.450
through in times of crisis like that. And so I just

00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.819
you know, really hope that you'll take a serious look

00:29:04.819 --> 00:29:07.380
at the petition filed by the Sierra club and and I

00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:10.009
hope that there's you know, genuine solutions that

00:29:10.009 --> 00:29:12.180
can come out of it. Thank you so much for your time

00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:13.859
Thank you.

00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.980
Next up is Daniella Silva.

00:29:25.539 --> 00:29:26.200
Mhm

00:29:36.980 --> 00:29:40.289
Good morning Commissioners. My name is Daniela Silva

00:29:40.299 --> 00:29:42.960
I'm a resident of Austin texas and I'll be using my

00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:46.680
time to read the story of Alvarado gallegos who lives

00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.519
in Brownsville texas and could not make it to Austin

00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.140
today to tell his own story and advocate for real solutions

00:29:53.140 --> 00:29:57.380
to fix the grid and lower our skyrocketing bills. My

00:29:57.380 --> 00:30:01.690
power company raised the bill by 50% 1 that I've always

00:30:01.690 --> 00:30:05.170
struggled to pay because my only source of income is

00:30:05.170 --> 00:30:09.450
the social security check this month. My power bill

00:30:09.460 --> 00:30:13.039
is more than half of my check. How am I supposed to

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:18.200
pay my rent and buy food and pay other bills? How can

00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:21.069
power companies expect that? People who make minimum

00:30:21.069 --> 00:30:25.779
wage have kids pay rent gas and now their bills are

00:30:25.789 --> 00:30:30.549
over $400 because no one that I know has received a

00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:36.140
bill for less than $400. The decisions that you've

00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:40.000
all made so far to supposedly make our grid more reliable

00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:44.200
are so expensive that they are nearly bankrupting residents

00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.640
across Texas after monday and Wednesday. We see that

00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.789
the so called solutions you have carried out so far

00:30:51.789 --> 00:30:56.559
are not even making the grid more stable. People like

00:30:56.569 --> 00:31:00.339
Alvarado and people that you've heard today are not

00:31:00.339 --> 00:31:04.089
the ones creating the huge demand. We don't have huge

00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:08.349
houses, we don't have multiple cars were not taking

00:31:08.349 --> 00:31:12.390
dozens of flights per year and yet we're the ones keeping

00:31:12.390 --> 00:31:17.519
our houses at 70, 82°, making sure that we turn off

00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:20.309
all of our lights, making sure that we're not leaving

00:31:20.309 --> 00:31:23.170
our faucets running so that we can save a few dollars

00:31:23.170 --> 00:31:26.650
here and there. And yet we are the ones who are paying

00:31:26.650 --> 00:31:30.089
the price physically and out of our pocket. And it

00:31:30.089 --> 00:31:33.630
is in just and we are calling on on y'all today to

00:31:33.630 --> 00:31:38.809
please fix the grid. Focus on the solution that is

00:31:38.809 --> 00:31:41.670
making everything more energy efficient and have that

00:31:41.670 --> 00:31:44.829
be your number one priority going forward. We shouldn't

00:31:44.829 --> 00:31:48.690
have to be out here today. We pay y'all with our tax

00:31:48.690 --> 00:31:52.539
dollars to give us this service and we should be able

00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:56.019
to rely on you to do this for us without us having

00:31:56.019 --> 00:31:58.680
to come out, taking off of work, taking out of our

00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:01.740
day to come here. So please please follow what Sierra

00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:04.160
Club is guiding you and what the rest of the people

00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:07.529
here today are asking you to do and work for the people

00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:09.630
Thank you. Thank you, ma'am.

00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.579
Next up is Elizabeth Rojer.

00:32:26.609 --> 00:32:30.970
Good morning Commissioners. I'm Elizabeth Roche Um, I

00:32:30.980 --> 00:32:34.549
like you. Uh, I'm in the Science field University of

00:32:34.549 --> 00:32:37.730
florida. Moved here for Grad school to study climate

00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:42.339
change on the ocean. Um, and it is real. And this is

00:32:42.339 --> 00:32:45.930
not the beginning of things with storm Uri droughts

00:32:45.930 --> 00:32:49.230
record heat this summer. This is just the beginning

00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:53.809
and you owe it to the people to fix the grid because

00:32:53.809 --> 00:32:58.730
this is unjust, and we have to do something about this

00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:01.539
and I'm gonna keep it short and simple. So this is

00:33:01.539 --> 00:33:05.109
a little out of my element. But yes, climate change

00:33:05.109 --> 00:33:08.759
is real and you have to do something. Thank you. Thank

00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:09.079
you ma'am.

00:33:12.990 --> 00:33:15.299
Next up is Fran Tatu

00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:25.130
Good,

00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:31.170
Good morning and thank you for hearing our testimonies

00:33:31.180 --> 00:33:35.630
Um, um, I'm a resident of the hill country where my

00:33:35.630 --> 00:33:40.339
home is um, 40 minutes from here took me to to arrive

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.579
I'm a folklorist by trade. And so I am in solidarity

00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:48.140
with all those who testify today and yet we as folklorists

00:33:48.140 --> 00:33:50.200
tell stories. So I'm gonna let you know that I'm still

00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:54.049
highly traumatized by the events of the big freeze

00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:57.039
Someone who does outreach in the streets, I'm here

00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:00.200
today to advocate for the most marginalized the un

00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.599
housed. We were able to house 135 people in a makeshift

00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.550
shelter who otherwise would have succumbed to the freeze

00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:10.760
We know of at least young man who was one young man

00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.289
who was living under a bridge who lost his legs and

00:34:13.289 --> 00:34:15.570
a few others succumbed to the freeze as many others

00:34:15.570 --> 00:34:17.730
throughout Texas did there were deaths, There were

00:34:17.730 --> 00:34:21.190
deaths because of this. I'm asking all of you today

00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:24.489
to ask yourselves while you were sitting in those seats

00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:28.230
who do you serve ask yourself this and began standing

00:34:28.230 --> 00:34:32.380
up to people like Kelsey Warren uh, and subsidizing

00:34:32.389 --> 00:34:38.900
alternate means of energy. My home lost, we lost, we

00:34:38.900 --> 00:34:42.050
lost electricity pretty quickly. And after four days

00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:45.019
I was sleeping in a sleeping bag and I was, I couldn't

00:34:45.019 --> 00:34:47.360
get out of out of my home. A friend had to come

00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.170
and pick me up in a four wheel drive and get me

00:34:49.170 --> 00:34:52.460
into town so I could start working under a coalition

00:34:52.460 --> 00:34:54.630
headed by chris Harris at the time, who's now with

00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:58.469
Austin Justice, Coalition of nonprofits, mutual aid

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:00.789
people who were just, You know, out of the goodness

00:35:00.789 --> 00:35:02.639
of their hearts. I had drivers driving through the

00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:07.079
night picking up people until 1, 234567 a.m. people

00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:09.210
who otherwise would have died in their, in their, in

00:35:09.210 --> 00:35:13.150
their tents. So please consider the marginalized the

00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.619
elderly, all of those who don't have a voice and can't

00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:19.769
be here today. Thank you so much for your time.

00:35:23.449 --> 00:35:25.510
Next up is Shane johnson

00:35:32.650 --> 00:35:36.570
the put a timer on my phone. So I know how long

00:35:36.570 --> 00:35:37.170
I'm taking.

00:35:38.750 --> 00:35:42.639
All right, thank you. Can y'all hear me? Thanks for

00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.639
your time. Um, Shane johnson, I'm a resident of Austin

00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:53.699
texas and that mostly gonna be reiterating and emphasizing

00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:57.329
what people have already been saying. Uh, but we need

00:35:57.329 --> 00:35:59.730
to put the public back in the public utility commission

00:35:59.739 --> 00:36:04.050
Um, we came in december of last year and spoke and

00:36:04.050 --> 00:36:06.030
we essentially said all of the same things, some of

00:36:06.030 --> 00:36:10.010
them verbatim. We warned, y'all literally that the

00:36:10.010 --> 00:36:12.739
stopgap measures in Phase One would be ridiculously

00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:16.150
expensive. Both phases would be expensive, could cost

00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:19.829
billions of dollars billion with a B. And now we're

00:36:19.829 --> 00:36:22.900
seeing seven months of Phase one has cost a billion

00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:26.139
dollars and it's being passed on to the people around

00:36:26.150 --> 00:36:30.170
the state. Um and that's one of several reasons why

00:36:30.170 --> 00:36:32.750
we have to approve this energy efficiency petition

00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:35.469
or and expand energy efficiency measures around the

00:36:35.469 --> 00:36:39.239
state. The grid cannot be fixed without energy efficiency

00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:42.900
it can't be reliable, more reliable without expanded

00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:46.230
energy efficiency measures. And deep down we know the

00:36:46.230 --> 00:36:49.409
grid is not more reliable. We had that scare in july

00:36:49.420 --> 00:36:52.050
it affects all of us, you know, some of us more than

00:36:52.050 --> 00:36:55.559
others, but we know that it is that things are not

00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:59.570
better off than they were in 2021. Uh, and what I'll

00:36:59.579 --> 00:37:04.219
what I'll emphasize too is that uh, in july was 13th

00:37:04.219 --> 00:37:08.030
or whatever, uh, there's enough thermal generation

00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:11.230
tripped offline to power the city of Houston twice

00:37:12.539 --> 00:37:16.659
Um, ERCOT doesn't fully plan for climate change and

00:37:16.659 --> 00:37:20.989
with, you know, essentially record demand and extremely

00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:26.059
energy efficient homes and, and uh especially multifamily

00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.599
we're seeing, you know, this excessive demand that's

00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.280
then actually blowing through our power plants and

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.239
if a few more power plants tripped offline, we would

00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:36.750
have absolutely been in a crisis rolling blackouts

00:37:36.750 --> 00:37:40.139
at the best. So we have to do more and we have

00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:44.269
to and it has to include energy efficiency um and I'll

00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:49.599
also use um I left my other paper over there but um

00:37:49.610 --> 00:37:53.909
I'll um describe the testimony of of one person who

00:37:53.909 --> 00:37:57.670
we spoke to uh in the Brownsville area of texas and

00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.480
for those who don't, who don't know, it's one of the

00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.380
poorest, that area is one of the poorest counties in

00:38:02.380 --> 00:38:05.690
the entire country and she described that her bill

00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:10.900
was over $1000 for july A $1,000 just for electric

00:38:10.909 --> 00:38:14.250
bill. Some other folks in Brownsville, one woman had

00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:17.280
to get a second job to pay her electric bill. Uh and

00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.880
this woman who um who's august, excuse me july bill

00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:26.389
was $1000 for august bill was over $600. This is ridiculous

00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.920
And we have to be prioritizing the solutions that are

00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.800
actually helping people and going to lower people's

00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:36.460
bills so, and that looks wide like widespread energy

00:38:36.460 --> 00:38:39.539
efficiency. Uh starting with these, these goals from

00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.309
the top down with these private utilities. Thank you

00:38:42.309 --> 00:38:44.530
for your time. Thank you for being here.

00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.769
Next up is Corey Troiani

00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:03.650
Good morning Corey Troiani. Uh huh. I'm with Texas

00:39:03.650 --> 00:39:05.420
campaign for the environment and thank you all for

00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:08.969
your time today. I'm gonna read the story of paige

00:39:08.969 --> 00:39:13.440
fan from Houston texas Um quote, we spent three days

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.550
with no power, the thermostat said it was 20° in our

00:39:16.550 --> 00:39:19.550
home, but it felt colder, we could see our breath inside

00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.300
the home, which was something I never expected before

00:39:23.130 --> 00:39:25.800
Overall it was miserable. But I'm lucky it wasn't worse

00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.630
for us. A friend of mine had two toddlers and risked

00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.940
a lot to drive in the ice to Pearl Island to stay

00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:36.639
with friends who had, who had power and other friends

00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:39.179
pipes burst on the second floor of his house and flooded

00:39:39.179 --> 00:39:41.530
the home where two generations of family, including

00:39:41.539 --> 00:39:45.380
elderly, were living. Our neighbors beside us ran out

00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:48.809
of food. So we gave them what we had. A lot of

00:39:48.809 --> 00:39:51.619
people were sitting in cars to keep warm, risking their

00:39:51.619 --> 00:39:55.420
lives. We could see that all of downtown had power

00:39:55.429 --> 00:39:59.230
as we were driving around to keep warm. The suffering

00:39:59.230 --> 00:40:03.500
of millions of people was the result of an energy grid

00:40:03.510 --> 00:40:07.769
that is designed to maximize profits when energy is

00:40:07.769 --> 00:40:11.630
scarce. We don't have an energy grid that works for

00:40:11.630 --> 00:40:15.610
ordinary people. It doesn't work during crisis. And

00:40:15.610 --> 00:40:18.820
we know that increased weather variability and climate

00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:22.880
change is making this grid less stable and even worse

00:40:24.289 --> 00:40:27.440
We have been advocating for simple solutions that are

00:40:27.449 --> 00:40:30.659
inexpensive, like energy efficiency programs and that's

00:40:30.659 --> 00:40:34.119
why we're here today to support the petition for Rulemaking

00:40:34.130 --> 00:40:36.960
We need to work on these programs that are inexpensive

00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.940
for Texans because as you've heard today and continue

00:40:39.940 --> 00:40:43.369
to hear people are dealing with rising energy costs

00:40:43.929 --> 00:40:47.739
You on this dais right here can make the changes there

00:40:47.739 --> 00:40:50.469
are rising costs across our economy. The economy is

00:40:50.469 --> 00:40:54.059
not working for normal ordinary people for working

00:40:54.059 --> 00:40:58.170
families and you all have the ability to affect the

00:40:58.179 --> 00:41:01.420
regular folks out there who are paying sky high energy

00:41:01.420 --> 00:41:05.329
costs. So I urge you to take action. Thank you. Thank

00:41:05.329 --> 00:41:05.719
you.

00:41:11.170 --> 00:41:13.619
Next up is Kathryn Hahn.

00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:25.489
Good morning. My name is Katherine Hahn and I'm a resident

00:41:25.489 --> 00:41:28.550
of Houston texas. Although this meeting today is being

00:41:28.550 --> 00:41:32.090
held in Austin every time are unreliable. Power grid

00:41:32.090 --> 00:41:35.679
crashes. We are all dragged down with it from major

00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:38.889
city to rural town. This includes you and everyone

00:41:38.889 --> 00:41:42.079
you know commissioners. The entire state of texas is

00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.130
connected and affected by this disastrous problem and

00:41:45.130 --> 00:41:47.909
the expensive and faux solutions proposed and implemented

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.739
by the puc thus far will not prevent the following

00:41:50.750 --> 00:41:54.989
from happening again from a resident in Denton texas

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:58.480
during the winter storm 2021 for three days. We had

00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.309
power on for one hour, then out for 4 to 5 hours

00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:04.650
We had to gauge our cooking, bathing and everyday task

00:42:04.650 --> 00:42:07.590
around that schedule. We had to sleep on pallets in

00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:10.039
the living room near the fireplace as the heat would

00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:14.239
shut off when power was off. We managed for these days

00:42:14.250 --> 00:42:17.050
and realized many others had it much worse. But this

00:42:17.050 --> 00:42:19.679
is unacceptable in a state that is praised for its

00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.650
oil and gas industry. We should not have issues with

00:42:22.650 --> 00:42:25.610
our power. People who are on the boards and serve that

00:42:25.610 --> 00:42:29.110
people are not getting the job done. It has been over

00:42:29.110 --> 00:42:31.829
a year and there are still so many shortfalls in addressing

00:42:31.829 --> 00:42:34.960
and stabilizing the grid. Please let's do something

00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.739
to move things forward and stabilize this grid, not

00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:39.760
just in the interest of making rich people richer,

00:42:39.769 --> 00:42:42.190
but for security, for those of us trying to sustain

00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:46.909
From a resident in dripping springs Texas. I like everyone

00:42:46.909 --> 00:42:50.010
had major problems during the February 2021 ice storm

00:42:50.010 --> 00:42:53.599
and loss of electricity. Three years ago we spent thousands

00:42:53.610 --> 00:42:56.630
and installed solar panels to modernize to renewables

00:42:56.630 --> 00:43:00.210
and to save money. We saw a huge drop in our electric

00:43:00.210 --> 00:43:03.079
bills after the ice storms and rolling blackouts. That

00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:05.500
week, I was told that it was not fair for us solar

00:43:05.500 --> 00:43:08.139
people to receive lower bills and regular customers

00:43:08.150 --> 00:43:10.679
and that a charge would be added to my bill each month

00:43:10.690 --> 00:43:13.699
to help out. You do what's right And you were penalized

00:43:13.699 --> 00:43:17.730
for it. We are old and went through many problems feeding

00:43:17.730 --> 00:43:20.300
a charcoal stove in our pump house to keep the pipes

00:43:20.300 --> 00:43:24.130
from freezing. And we did this hourly. Only el paso

00:43:24.130 --> 00:43:26.860
had the foresight to build into the future with new

00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:29.449
facilities and equipment and hook up to a reliable

00:43:29.449 --> 00:43:32.820
grid from the west. The rest of Texas is supposed to

00:43:32.820 --> 00:43:35.059
believe the lies that you're doing everything you can

00:43:35.059 --> 00:43:38.090
to help us in our energy costs, but not so we need

00:43:38.090 --> 00:43:40.530
a grid that really works for us, Not for the energy

00:43:40.530 --> 00:43:43.300
companies who profit from deregulation in an unstable

00:43:43.300 --> 00:43:47.460
grid. Abbott is financed by oil and gas and most Texas

00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:51.150
politicians are also, I could say shame, but it would

00:43:51.150 --> 00:43:54.000
make no difference because they feel no shame at screwing

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:57.050
their constituents. This is our story and I have not

00:43:57.050 --> 00:43:59.449
sanitized it because you should hear the outrage from

00:43:59.449 --> 00:44:03.570
Texans from a resident in austin texas. My daughter

00:44:03.570 --> 00:44:06.449
was born with a genetic condition called cystic fibrosis

00:44:06.460 --> 00:44:08.880
One of the ways we treat her condition is with daily

00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.329
treatments, but for this she needs a percussion machine

00:44:11.329 --> 00:44:14.789
as well as the nebulizer. Both of these require electricity

00:44:15.340 --> 00:44:18.179
I see my time is close out. So I will say Commissioners

00:44:18.269 --> 00:44:20.329
These decisions will follow you for the rest of your

00:44:20.329 --> 00:44:23.769
lives. Please don't lay down a corruption. Thank you

00:44:24.940 --> 00:44:25.809
Thank you man.

00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.670
Next up is Trevor Carroll.

00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:43.820
Good morning Commissioners. I want to say, I definitely

00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:46.460
appreciate the point made at the beginning about Texans

00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:48.849
taking care of each other. That's exactly what we're

00:44:48.849 --> 00:44:52.289
asking for. Um, today, that's why we're all here. Um

00:44:52.300 --> 00:44:54.400
yeah, my name is Trevor Carol. I'm here today from

00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.139
Harris County. I have had the privilege to take time

00:44:57.150 --> 00:44:59.760
out of my weekday morning to travel here to address

00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.110
you. That is, you know, not the case for for most people

00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.230
the ability to participate in meetings like this that

00:45:05.230 --> 00:45:08.420
affect everyone's lives is not accessible to most working

00:45:08.420 --> 00:45:11.289
class people, but you can be sure that the people from

00:45:11.300 --> 00:45:13.920
all over the state have plenty to say about how their

00:45:13.929 --> 00:45:17.530
energy bills have doubled or even tripled. I've spoken

00:45:17.530 --> 00:45:20.210
to people from all over our state who shared stories

00:45:20.210 --> 00:45:22.659
about how they are struggling to get by with high bills

00:45:22.659 --> 00:45:25.739
and are frustrated at our officials who put corporate

00:45:25.750 --> 00:45:28.980
interests over everyday Texans. It's not a secret to

00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:31.780
most Texans that major corporations have made huge

00:45:31.780 --> 00:45:35.119
profits while Texans fall behind on bills and suffer

00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:38.599
in climate extremes. I'm a resident of Freeport, Texas

00:45:38.599 --> 00:45:41.099
asked me to specifically mention the fact that massive

00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:45.019
facilities like Freeport LNG refused to shut down during

00:45:45.019 --> 00:45:48.269
your e while the people in nearby neighborhoods spent

00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:51.440
eight days without power freezing in their homes when

00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:53.360
the governor finally ordered them to shut down, It

00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:56.099
was only for a short amount of time while residents

00:45:56.099 --> 00:45:59.809
sacrificed so much. Um, Texans really need relief,

00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:02.440
especially the poor people on fixed incomes, those

00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:05.599
behind on their bills. The puc has the power to act

00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.849
and help struggling Texans were asking, why haven't

00:46:08.849 --> 00:46:12.039
you? Um, Texas obviously ranks near the bottom of all

00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:14.710
states on energy efficiency, which is unacceptable

00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:18.929
One simple solution would be to adopt the rulemaking

00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:21.320
petition that others have mentioned. I'm gonna quickly

00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.260
read some stories from other Texans who could not be

00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:28.800
here today. The last major freeze caused many frozen

00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.329
pipes in my home and buildings, which cost me hundreds

00:46:32.340 --> 00:46:35.150
of dollars of which I did not have as I am retired

00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:38.230
and on a fixed income, we did not have power to heat

00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:40.900
these areas for several days and the communications

00:46:40.900 --> 00:46:45.300
were terrible as um to uh to expect some relief but

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:47.940
our primary disappointment is the reaction from government

00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:50.730
Since this power outage um you know, there's been almost

00:46:50.730 --> 00:46:54.269
no changes. Um no changes have been made to address

00:46:54.269 --> 00:46:56.840
these problems and we can expect even more problems

00:46:57.250 --> 00:47:00.469
Since 2020. We have been without power for over three

00:47:00.469 --> 00:47:04.699
days um at a time for four different times. Twice in

00:47:04.699 --> 00:47:07.159
the winter, once in the spring and once in the summer

00:47:07.170 --> 00:47:10.789
the 2021 freeze left us without power for 4.5 days

00:47:10.789 --> 00:47:14.889
We ended up having um a pet die because we were not

00:47:14.889 --> 00:47:17.380
able to keep the correct temperature and environment

00:47:17.380 --> 00:47:20.949
for them. Um We installed a smart heating and A C system

00:47:20.949 --> 00:47:24.550
and regularly have it changed um based on power prices

00:47:24.550 --> 00:47:27.099
and energy levels for the state. Um We used to get

00:47:27.099 --> 00:47:30.039
rebates um when they would auto set the temperatures

00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:31.940
higher in the house but that does not seem to happen

00:47:31.940 --> 00:47:35.849
anymore. The puc must focus on sustainability rather

00:47:35.849 --> 00:47:40.800
than corporate profits. Thank you. Thank you for being

00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:41.059
here.

00:47:44.789 --> 00:47:48.309
Next next up is David Cortez

00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:53.519
Thank you,

00:47:56.349 --> 00:47:58.559
Howdy. Good morning. Good to see you again. Nice to

00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.949
meet you commissioner. Uh David Cortez out of South

00:48:02.949 --> 00:48:06.860
Austin by way of el paso texas born and raised. I'm

00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:10.059
the excuse me, I think I'm the last speaker today.

00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:15.309
So let's all listen very closely. Um I do want to say

00:48:15.309 --> 00:48:18.889
I need your help. Uh today is my four year old daughter

00:48:18.889 --> 00:48:23.159
out of Sally's first day of pre K and I'm here. I

00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:27.820
missed it. I missed getting her out the door. I'm happy

00:48:27.820 --> 00:48:31.369
to be here. I'm happy to get people to come and talk

00:48:31.380 --> 00:48:34.320
We've been working very hard with our staff, our partner

00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:38.119
organizations to get people's comments. It is very

00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:41.559
consuming work. Our members, I'm very grateful to them

00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:44.090
for their contributions to give us the ability to do

00:48:44.090 --> 00:48:47.760
that. But I need your help. We need the resources of

00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:49.750
the public utility commission in the state of texas

00:48:49.750 --> 00:48:53.570
to be deployed to bring more people's input into this

00:48:53.570 --> 00:48:57.030
process to address our energy crisis around the state

00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.300
Um I think we know, but I'm gonna say it again. The

00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:05.550
climate crisis is very real. It is unfolding before

00:49:05.550 --> 00:49:09.530
our eyes. This work is no longer about some far off

00:49:09.530 --> 00:49:13.119
future or Children's Children's future. It is about

00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.900
the very real, very present danger that radically and

00:49:16.900 --> 00:49:19.860
disproportionately harms the hundreds of thousands

00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:23.730
of Texans who are struggling with high bills. A new

00:49:23.730 --> 00:49:27.550
report from a new survey from ACEEE just said

00:49:27.550 --> 00:49:31.719
that about 80% or more of us registered voters support

00:49:31.730 --> 00:49:35.800
some of the federal policies about energy conservation

00:49:35.809 --> 00:49:38.570
with the highest support among liberal democrats, but

00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:42.269
with at least 50% of conservative republicans also

00:49:42.269 --> 00:49:46.210
supporting tax incentives and rebates to homeowners

00:49:46.210 --> 00:49:48.889
landlords and businesses to make existing buildings

00:49:48.889 --> 00:49:52.800
more energy efficient. It's not just inflation, it's

00:49:52.809 --> 00:49:56.469
or the high price of gas, it's our utility bills as

00:49:56.469 --> 00:49:58.829
you've heard loud and clear today. You have the power

00:49:58.829 --> 00:50:01.889
to help the single mothers, the folks on fixed incomes

00:50:01.900 --> 00:50:04.670
That was my mom that spoke earlier, I was just blown

00:50:04.670 --> 00:50:09.420
away. She did so well speaking to y'all, she's on fixed

00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:13.179
income, You know, residential rates are averaging between

00:50:13.179 --> 00:50:19.429
24-27 cents now that's double where it was a year ago

00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.769
People are getting these bills in the mail now they're

00:50:23.769 --> 00:50:27.170
gonna fall into debt and I am worried they're not gonna

00:50:27.170 --> 00:50:29.550
be able to pay them and they're gonna get their power

00:50:29.550 --> 00:50:32.699
shut off in the coming months. You have the power to

00:50:32.699 --> 00:50:37.289
help the people most affected by your decisions are

00:50:37.289 --> 00:50:39.590
states lack of action are unable to participate in

00:50:39.590 --> 00:50:42.639
this process. It is essential that they get more opportunity

00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:46.599
to participate. The E. I. P. Process in october is

00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:49.889
not a sufficient nor equitable space for that participation

00:50:49.889 --> 00:50:52.809
to happen. Companies like Centerpoint whose Ceo reportedly

00:50:52.809 --> 00:50:56.389
made 37.8 million last year and encore who reported

00:50:56.389 --> 00:50:59.420
profits of 60 million above their forecast and their

00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:01.519
partners with the Association of electric Companies

00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:05.780
of Texas dominate those spaces. We need more regular

00:51:05.780 --> 00:51:08.570
Texans at the table. Please help us with it. Thank

00:51:08.570 --> 00:51:08.809
you.

00:51:12.340 --> 00:51:14.820
Thank you for being here and good luck to your daughter

00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:19.489
on a big day. We have no more speakers signed up sir

00:51:20.309 --> 00:51:23.070
Thank you. Mr Journeay. At this point, public comment is

00:51:23.070 --> 00:51:26.239
now closed as always, this commission, I know everybody

00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:30.079
up here appreciates and welcomes public comment, appreciate

00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:33.989
you all being here. The next item on the agenda please

00:51:33.989 --> 00:51:34.269
Mr Journeay.

00:51:36.809 --> 00:51:39.829
(item:5:52380) The next item on the agenda will be item number five

00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:44.980
docket 52380, petition of S. W. W. C. Utilities

00:51:46.070 --> 00:51:49.570
uh and the City of Austin for approval of the services

00:51:49.579 --> 00:51:55.260
contract Under 13248 of the water code proposal for

00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:59.739
decision was filed on July eight and the L. J. Declined

00:51:59.739 --> 00:52:02.329
to make any changes in response to exceptions.

00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.920
Thank you sir. Thoughts, comments

00:52:09.789 --> 00:52:13.429
I would be in favor of adopting the PFD that dismisses

00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:16.639
S W. W. C. Utilities and City of Austin's petition

00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:21.630
with prejudice under 16 Tac 22 181 subsection D

00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.650
eight for failure to state a claim for which relief

00:52:24.650 --> 00:52:28.679
can be granted under T W. C. 13.248 and

00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:34.409
16.24 53. But make modifications in our order approving

00:52:34.409 --> 00:52:38.719
the PFD to modify ordering paragraph two to remove

00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.630
the alternate basis for dismissal. That reference,

00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:46.719
um lack of jurisdiction and um mood question or absolute

00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:50.030
absolute petition and delete all conclusions of law

00:52:50.030 --> 00:52:53.130
that address these alternate bases for dismissal, which

00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:54.579
do not apply to this case.

00:52:56.530 --> 00:53:02.349
I agree with that. MR Chairman. I agree, sounded dangerously

00:53:02.349 --> 00:53:04.449
close to emotional. I think you got a second.

00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:11.269
Alright, I moved to adopt the PFD with the modifications

00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:16.329
stated and I would say all right, we've got a motion

00:53:16.329 --> 00:53:20.619
and a second. All in favor say aye, not opposed motion

00:53:20.619 --> 00:53:21.750
passes. Next item. Please

00:53:24.099 --> 00:53:28.539
(item:6:52435) Next item is item six, docket 52435 petition of legacy

00:53:28.539 --> 00:53:33.230
equestrian center to amend merrily said CCN in collin

00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:37.139
County by expedited release before the commission is

00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:40.920
an appeal of order number six. This is certainly an

00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:44.230
interesting one thoughts, comments.

00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:52.250
I sure. Uh I would be in favor of denying Merrilees

00:53:52.250 --> 00:53:55.760
appeal um from the old days determination or number

00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:59.409
six and clarify that the commission's order granting

00:53:59.409 --> 00:54:02.099
the streamlined expedite the release of the track of

00:54:02.099 --> 00:54:04.639
land is a final order under the administrative procedures

00:54:04.650 --> 00:54:09.739
act um scr petition and the compensation proceeding

00:54:09.739 --> 00:54:12.610
that follows the commission's approval of an scr petition

00:54:12.610 --> 00:54:14.530
or two separate proceedings that are combined into

00:54:14.530 --> 00:54:18.679
one um control number for administrative efficiency

00:54:18.690 --> 00:54:22.130
Um Therefore, the ALJ correctly determined that the

00:54:22.130 --> 00:54:25.119
commission's final order filed on March 1st 2020 to

00:54:25.130 --> 00:54:29.170
release the track from mary lee's um certified service

00:54:29.170 --> 00:54:32.719
area and therefore there is no need to clarify no need

00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.650
for clarification on whether the release can proceed

00:54:34.650 --> 00:54:37.639
because the release has already occurred. Um We're

00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:39.420
in the middle of the compensation proceeding at this

00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:43.190
time. Um That's a separate action from the commission's

00:54:43.190 --> 00:54:47.920
final order releasing the track of land. Uh the so

00:54:47.929 --> 00:54:51.199
the ALJ correctly determined that the legacy equestrian

00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:54.329
is responsible for paying the appraisal fee and compensation

00:54:54.329 --> 00:54:57.489
of any to merely sud So I believe that forms the

00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:00.610
basis of my position of denying Merrilees appeal and

00:55:00.610 --> 00:55:03.670
affirming the LJ's determination or number six once

00:55:03.670 --> 00:55:07.760
the orders issued its final compensations there, they're

00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.590
trying to conflate two separate proceedings under one

00:55:10.590 --> 00:55:16.280
docket And so I think it's necessary that affirm for

00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:19.329
everybody that it's a two step process and we've moved

00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:24.050
beyond the scr you can't back out of it. I don't like

00:55:24.050 --> 00:55:27.989
the outcome. So I would support positions.

00:55:32.059 --> 00:55:34.480
Alright, okay, you have motion for that commissioner

00:55:34.730 --> 00:55:39.210
Yes. Um I would move to deny Merrilees appeal and affirmed

00:55:39.210 --> 00:55:42.579
the determination in order number six, pursuant to

00:55:42.579 --> 00:55:46.670
our discussion. Second, motion in a second all in favor

00:55:46.670 --> 00:55:51.389
say, aye, not opposed motion passes. Next item please

00:55:53.059 --> 00:55:58.989
(item:8:52758) The next item is item eight, It's docket 52758. It's

00:55:58.989 --> 00:56:03.050
the petition of Mcallen's public utility appealing

00:56:03.050 --> 00:56:06.210
hotel water rates charged by Hidalgo County Water Improvement

00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:09.760
District. Number three in front of the commission is

00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:13.889
an appeal of order number four. The last one was interesting

00:56:13.889 --> 00:56:17.989
This is even more interesting. Um We've got a couple

00:56:17.989 --> 00:56:24.389
of complicating factors here, most notably some question

00:56:24.389 --> 00:56:25.400
about jurisdiction.

00:56:28.590 --> 00:56:33.349
Mr Chairman. I believe the legislative letter that

00:56:33.349 --> 00:56:36.650
we have received calls in the most basic scope of what

00:56:36.650 --> 00:56:42.769
we do here. Um I believe the timing of the this passage

00:56:42.769 --> 00:56:48.349
of the statues referenced again. The water code. Uh

00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:52.309
the relevant water code areas of jurisdiction moved

00:56:52.309 --> 00:56:55.929
over in the same section in the same session that are

00:56:55.929 --> 00:56:59.960
being cited as part of the legislative letter. Um I

00:56:59.960 --> 00:57:05.119
think we need to take time to seek guidance. I I believe

00:57:05.130 --> 00:57:07.940
an attorney general opinion is warranted here. I mean

00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:11.190
this this could affect this could have a real effect

00:57:11.190 --> 00:57:15.659
on on other cases. Um We just need clarity. So I would

00:57:15.670 --> 00:57:20.409
I would take uh I would move to extend um this case

00:57:20.409 --> 00:57:23.599
and then take that time to seek an attorney general

00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.719
opinion on agreed. I'd rather get it right on the front

00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:30.030
and then have problems on the back end. I'd be comfortable

00:57:30.030 --> 00:57:32.369
with an indefinite extension. So there's no we don't

00:57:32.369 --> 00:57:35.969
have to revisit this on various timelines and that

00:57:35.980 --> 00:57:39.239
I wasn't thinking about that path. But I totally agree

00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:42.070
with that. I think getting an attorney general's opinion

00:57:42.070 --> 00:57:47.489
is probably the right path. Um But uh no I don't applaud

00:57:47.489 --> 00:57:49.699
you but I think that was a really good thought. So

00:57:49.710 --> 00:57:54.800
I affirm your prudent. Very prudent. Very prudent.

00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:58.360
And I affirm your brilliance. All right. Do you have

00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:02.380
a motion? I would so move consistent with our discussion

00:58:02.739 --> 00:58:06.260
with a modified delegated authority of the E. D. To

00:58:06.260 --> 00:58:10.010
actually sign the request to the G. Two for this opinion

00:58:10.340 --> 00:58:13.179
I would so move to extend indefinitely and delegate

00:58:13.190 --> 00:58:16.469
authority to the executive director to seek an attorney

00:58:16.469 --> 00:58:20.739
general opinion on clarification clarification on jurisdiction

00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:26.820
agency. We got a motion with the 2nd 2nd. I am not

00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:32.559
opposed motion passes. Next item please sir. (item:9:53109) The next

00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:36.349
item is item nine is docket 53109 is the application

00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:40.280
of undying development for a system improvement charge

00:58:40.289 --> 00:58:46.130
A draft preliminary order was filed on july 13th. Oh

00:58:46.130 --> 00:58:48.570
that's right. We're just gonna take up 14. Thank you

00:58:48.570 --> 00:58:49.670
sir. I forgot

00:58:53.329 --> 00:58:56.869
we need a green light for you. I don't think I deserve

00:58:56.869 --> 00:58:58.510
a green light. Red light

00:59:01.710 --> 00:59:09.019
(item:14:52954) Item fourteen's project 52954. It's a year in 2021 water

00:59:09.019 --> 00:59:11.880
and sewer Annual reports. Commission staff filed a

00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:18.860
memorandum regarding the Undines, rates and rate cases

00:59:19.429 --> 00:59:24.309
at Charles request. Yeah we we took this up in a previous

00:59:24.309 --> 00:59:27.570
meeting asked for more information and clarification

00:59:27.570 --> 00:59:31.409
We we've received that very timely manner. Thank you

00:59:31.420 --> 00:59:35.110
Darryl and team for quick turnaround on that uh

00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:41.599
thoughts, comments. I mean I know there's a desire

00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:43.679
for more information sooner rather than later but we've

00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:48.559
also got to balance out with expeditious water service

00:59:48.710 --> 00:59:52.510
and ensuring that we keep companies moving forward

00:59:52.510 --> 00:59:56.750
on providing that service at the consistency and quality

00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:02.400
that our citizens are. Uh I want to thank Daryl and

01:00:02.409 --> 01:00:07.320
and Anna on their work in reviewing the ending group's

01:00:07.329 --> 01:00:11.900
financial status to help us. Um In our our assessment

01:00:11.909 --> 01:00:17.869
of undying uh S. I. C case and so based on my

01:00:17.869 --> 01:00:22.269
review of their memo, I think that Darryl um and Anna

01:00:22.269 --> 01:00:28.619
provided a good basis for waiting to order the well

01:00:28.630 --> 01:00:31.929
ordering the comprehensive rate case to be filed by

01:00:31.940 --> 01:00:36.269
the whole corporate structure lending group. Uh by

01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:40.510
May one, And I say that because I think it will be

01:00:40.510 --> 01:00:44.849
a cleaner rate case. Um in terms of matching up the

01:00:44.849 --> 01:00:48.119
historical test here with Undines fiscal year. And

01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:53.420
so I based on my review of the memo, I think Daryl

01:00:53.420 --> 01:00:59.380
and um provided a sufficient basis for for us the commission

01:00:59.380 --> 01:01:01.360
to require undoing group to file a comprehensive rate

01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:05.820
case by May 1st 2025 to allow us time to get information

01:01:05.829 --> 01:01:09.030
or the companies to get more information. So we could

01:01:09.030 --> 01:01:11.269
have a more comprehensive review at that time. And

01:01:11.269 --> 01:01:13.320
there's a lot of dockets in between now and then. That

01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:16.519
would was completely like you said make for a much

01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:21.099
cleaner rate case. That makes sense to me. Mr. Chairman

01:01:21.099 --> 01:01:24.869
I would just add, I mean this uh this balance is two

01:01:24.869 --> 01:01:28.849
areas for me. One of them is the uh confusing management

01:01:28.849 --> 01:01:31.809
and corporate structure of this holding company and

01:01:31.809 --> 01:01:35.039
the utilities that fall underneath it and how you how

01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.260
you get to the underlying cost to these consumers.

01:01:38.269 --> 01:01:42.309
Um I think I appreciate the staff time um and the company's

01:01:42.309 --> 01:01:46.690
time to provide the necessary information. Um I agree

01:01:46.690 --> 01:01:49.849
with commissioner Cobos that I think that the memo

01:01:49.849 --> 01:01:53.360
lays out the reason to delay. I want to add that another

01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:57.889
one. Another reason is that they are continually continuing

01:01:57.889 --> 01:02:01.170
to invest in these systems and the capital is needed

01:02:01.170 --> 01:02:05.059
in these systems. Were balancing um our processes,

01:02:05.059 --> 01:02:08.869
our procedures and the rates for our consumers with

01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:13.349
the need for additional water infrastructure and we

01:02:13.349 --> 01:02:17.000
need this additional water infrastructure. But um so

01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.480
I think that uh you know folks in this space, you know

01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:24.210
in this area, we will keep an eye on you. We can

01:02:24.210 --> 01:02:26.800
always bring in for a rate case between now and then

01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:30.079
if we need to but uh you know keep keep doing what

01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:33.440
you're doing and I would I would request that perhaps

01:02:33.449 --> 01:02:36.739
um we have a review and a report every year between

01:02:36.739 --> 01:02:39.429
now and and rate case here to uh to get an update

01:02:39.429 --> 01:02:43.079
on this and uh and to see Um if staff continues to

01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:47.590
believe that that we should wait till 2025 uh an update

01:02:47.590 --> 01:02:52.309
from staff. Yes. In what next next year? Yeah. In the

01:02:52.309 --> 01:02:57.659
next year or 18 months, uh 18 months, 18 months. Yeah

01:02:57.670 --> 01:02:59.989
that that makes sense. I think I'm sure Darrell and

01:02:59.989 --> 01:03:04.150
team can accommodate it. Uh and I agree with everything

01:03:04.150 --> 01:03:10.239
you said and will emphasize that the consumer cost

01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:14.179
considerations always have the true up in the back

01:03:14.179 --> 01:03:16.349
end of the rate case. So if there is over earning,

01:03:16.349 --> 01:03:20.150
if there are uh if there does need to be a correction

01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:24.250
there's a very clear mechanism and obviously as everyone

01:03:24.250 --> 01:03:27.159
can tell a very clear willingness from this commission

01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:29.590
to utilize that to ensure we strike the appropriate

01:03:29.590 --> 01:03:32.710
balance between continued investment in water and wastewater

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:36.179
while also protecting our customers.

01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:44.630
Thank you sir. Um No, I I agree with everything that's

01:03:44.630 --> 01:03:47.889
been said mr Chairman, I believe I concur with Mr Glotfelty

01:03:47.889 --> 01:03:51.789
that strikes a balance between our uh need uh in the

01:03:51.789 --> 01:03:54.179
public interest to determine reasonableness at the

01:03:54.179 --> 01:03:58.280
end of uh of a determined period, but also allow the

01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:02.039
utilities to avail themselves of these expedited measures

01:04:02.050 --> 01:04:05.670
to fund needed infrastructure for the betterment of

01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:09.980
the consumers they serve. So I I know the industry

01:04:09.980 --> 01:04:13.800
is frustrated with us um but we're charting a course

01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:16.469
here that we can follow in future cases for future

01:04:16.469 --> 01:04:20.920
companies for future systems and uh it's gonna get

01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:24.559
better. So uh let us make this better and this is this

01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:26.010
is a middle ground.

01:04:27.789 --> 01:04:32.929
I don't think we need any action on this item. Uh Clarification

01:04:32.929 --> 01:04:37.429
needed from staff. I think what we were thinking perhaps

01:04:37.429 --> 01:04:40.760
is to the extent we want to memorialize the decisions

01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:43.780
about the future rate case. We might do it at the conclusion

01:04:44.420 --> 01:04:49.659
of the uh item nine docket Uh we're gonna have to touch

01:04:49.670 --> 01:04:53.199
on probably in that docket the requirements in our

01:04:53.199 --> 01:04:57.920
rule to file rate case after a system improvement charge

01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:00.380
anyway and we can just kind of tie that all up into

01:05:00.380 --> 01:05:05.590
one neat package I think. Fair enough. So no formal

01:05:05.590 --> 01:05:10.110
action on this item. Um I appreciate you keeping a

01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.829
watchful eye over this going forward, which brings

01:05:13.829 --> 01:05:18.199
us to number nine again. (item:9:53109) You lay that out for us. docket

01:05:18.199 --> 01:05:22.000
53109 Application of undying Development for system

01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:25.039
improvement charge. A draft preliminary order was filed

01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:30.829
on july 13th. Um and that draft preliminary orders

01:05:30.829 --> 01:05:34.480
in front of you think giving up previous conversation

01:05:34.489 --> 01:05:39.289
comfortable approving the preliminary order. Do we

01:05:39.289 --> 01:05:44.579
want to stick with 18-month checkup from staff and

01:05:44.579 --> 01:05:49.630
then we can reassess at that point? I guess I'm so

01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:53.239
I think Daryl's recommendations were either to require

01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:55.780
them by a date, certain to file a comprehensive rate

01:05:55.780 --> 01:06:00.170
case and then being Undines group or to just do an annual

01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:03.380
checkup and then determine from there when they should

01:06:03.380 --> 01:06:05.460
come in. I think there are two distinct paths. So that's

01:06:05.460 --> 01:06:08.949
what I'm trying to assess which one we're directing

01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:12.760
here. Yeah, the question was an annual checkup for

01:06:12.769 --> 01:06:15.400
18 months, you know, I sure.

01:06:16.969 --> 01:06:17.400
Up

01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:21.780
morning Commissioners Darryl teaching on behalf of

01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:25.710
Staff Commissioner like Mr Lake. Same to you, Chairman

01:06:25.710 --> 01:06:29.710
like Commissioner Jackson. Welcome to PUC. Um Yes,

01:06:29.710 --> 01:06:33.039
you're correct. Commissioner Cobos we uh we framed

01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:36.420
our recommendation as primarily a comprehensive rate

01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:40.969
case for indian group. The parent company uh by january

01:06:40.969 --> 01:06:43.639
one as the commission has discussed. Um I think we

01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:49.559
on staff would be, We would be cool with a January

01:06:49.559 --> 01:06:52.980
May 2025 deadline. That would be fine with regard to

01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:55.860
sort of the distinction between the two basic recommendations

01:06:55.869 --> 01:07:00.110
Um We sort of presented them as a sort of separate

01:07:00.110 --> 01:07:03.309
and distinct. I think they could sort of be done at

01:07:03.309 --> 01:07:06.079
the same time. In parallel the commission requires

01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:08.469
undying group to file a comprehensive rate case by

01:07:08.469 --> 01:07:13.139
say May of 2025. And as well we on staff will continue

01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:16.539
to as part of our as part of our normal process of

01:07:16.539 --> 01:07:20.010
reviewing the annual reports of the water companies

01:07:20.019 --> 01:07:24.519
using the same basic process as we have for Years,

01:07:24.519 --> 01:07:26.909
if not decades for the electric companies. That's what

01:07:26.909 --> 01:07:29.269
we would do. We would do an annual review of undying

01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:33.030
going forward. Alright, so we can do both. We can set

01:07:33.030 --> 01:07:37.500
an annual review uh and then also plan on asking for

01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:41.989
that May 2025. Comprehensive case. Yes, sir. And I

01:07:41.989 --> 01:07:44.099
think it's sort of a matter of default. I mean staff

01:07:44.099 --> 01:07:47.219
reviews annual reports anyway and obviously we will

01:07:47.230 --> 01:07:49.889
we will pay particular attention to the Undine group

01:07:50.739 --> 01:07:53.849
Works for me. Yes, thank you for the

01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:58.659
sounds good. So in terms of formal action on this,

01:07:58.670 --> 01:08:00.980
all we need is a motion to approve the preliminary

01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:04.860
order that was filed on July 13. Yes. And just to remind

01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:08.380
you that that preliminary order has addresses for briefing

01:08:08.380 --> 01:08:13.820
issues that we had sent out previously. Ah So it's

01:08:13.820 --> 01:08:15.630
in there. We don't have to read this back into the

01:08:15.630 --> 01:08:20.850
record. No sir. The draft order has uh addresses all

01:08:20.850 --> 01:08:21.350
four of those.

01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:25.689
Thank you. Daryl. We have motion

01:08:27.529 --> 01:08:30.550
motion in the second Christopher, Glotfelty all in

01:08:30.550 --> 01:08:36.039
favor say aye opposed motion passes next item please

01:08:37.449 --> 01:08:42.510
(item:13:53891) The next item will be item 13 which is the docket 53891

01:08:42.510 --> 01:08:45.020
The petition for appointing temporary manager Avila

01:08:45.020 --> 01:08:51.430
utilities uh we need to recess and go into our here

01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:54.649
open meeting for our hearing. At this point this meeting

01:08:54.649 --> 01:08:57.239
of the public utility commission will recess to hold

01:08:57.250 --> 01:09:01.699
the separate hearing at 10:42. Am give it a minute

01:09:01.710 --> 01:09:02.609
for a setup.

01:09:06.649 --> 01:09:08.770
Everybody good to go.

01:09:12.819 --> 01:09:14.739
Alright this meeting. The public utility commission

01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:16.630
will come to order for the merits hearing and docket

01:09:16.630 --> 01:09:20.659
53891 which has been duly posted with the Secretary

01:09:20.659 --> 01:09:23.619
of State of texas for august 25th 2022. We'll turn

01:09:23.619 --> 01:09:26.439
it over to our commissioner ALJ for administration of

01:09:26.439 --> 01:09:28.899
the hearing. Good morning Commissioners. I called the

01:09:28.899 --> 01:09:32.300
order docket number 53891. Commission staff and Harrison

01:09:32.300 --> 01:09:34.779
Williams. Joint petition for an order appointing a

01:09:34.779 --> 01:09:37.989
temporary manager of billy utilities rita States water

01:09:37.989 --> 01:09:40.890
system and vista utilities on an indefinite basis.

01:09:41.050 --> 01:09:43.340
This is Isaac Ta assisting the commissioners And the

01:09:43.350 --> 01:09:45.579
purpose of this hearing is to determine whether a temporary

01:09:45.579 --> 01:09:48.829
manager should be appointed. We had a pre hearing conference

01:09:48.829 --> 01:09:52.920
yesterday and I admitted 12 exhibits. I also restore

01:09:52.930 --> 01:09:55.270
one witness for commission staff and they're available

01:09:55.270 --> 01:09:58.180
to answer any questions you have at this time. Let's

01:09:58.180 --> 01:10:00.340
take the appearances of the party starting with commission

01:10:00.340 --> 01:10:03.350
staff. Good morning Van on behalf of commission staff

01:10:04.260 --> 01:10:06.819
Good morning Helen Gilbert on behalf of the temporary

01:10:06.819 --> 01:10:10.529
manager Harrison Williams. And have either of you heard

01:10:10.539 --> 01:10:13.199
anything from a representative for any of the utilities

01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:18.189
at this point is not we have not commission staff any

01:10:18.189 --> 01:10:21.800
opening statements. None. MS Goldberg, nothing here

01:10:22.630 --> 01:10:23.939
Commissioners any questions.

01:10:26.670 --> 01:10:32.710
Any closing arguments? None. Yes sir. Then we are adjourned

01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:35.529
Thank you. Thank you. All this marriage hearing doctor

01:10:35.529 --> 01:10:40.960
53891 is hereby adjourned at 10 44. Am appreciate you

01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:45.359
all. The normal meeting of the public detail Commission

01:10:45.359 --> 01:10:49.289
is now called back into session at 10 45 AM resuming

01:10:49.289 --> 01:10:51.579
(item:13:53891) with item 13 docket 53891

01:10:54.010 --> 01:10:59.109
works for me. You bet. Mr Chairman I commissioners

01:10:59.109 --> 01:11:03.659
I believe that this is a high profile, highly publicized

01:11:03.670 --> 01:11:09.640
uh system of utilities that Mr Williams was kind enough

01:11:09.649 --> 01:11:15.439
to take on. Um I believe the facts in the case. Speak

01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:18.449
for themselves, norman Barnett abandoned operations

01:11:18.449 --> 01:11:21.539
of the facilities for v utilities, Rita states, water

01:11:21.539 --> 01:11:25.270
system and vista utilities and a temporary manager

01:11:25.270 --> 01:11:28.789
should be clearly appointed. Uh the petition sufficiently

01:11:28.789 --> 01:11:31.250
addressed the basis for the abandonment of the Texas

01:11:31.250 --> 01:11:34.659
water code. Um Further I believe appointment of Harrison

01:11:34.659 --> 01:11:38.739
Williams, temporary manager of uh the utilities is

01:11:38.750 --> 01:11:41.890
continues to be appropriate. Mr Williams was appointed

01:11:41.890 --> 01:11:44.300
as a temporary manager of the utility by emergency

01:11:44.300 --> 01:11:48.699
order back on March 16th of this year. Um Rita states

01:11:48.699 --> 01:11:52.109
water system experienced a complete failure as a part

01:11:52.109 --> 01:11:57.270
of uh april of 2022. Uh Mr Williams invested resources

01:11:57.270 --> 01:12:00.439
to restore water service uh to those customers of the

01:12:00.439 --> 01:12:03.000
system and submitted an application to permit a new

01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:06.310
well for the system uh to T. C. Q. Which is currently

01:12:06.310 --> 01:12:09.600
pending. I concur with staff. They believe that Mr

01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:12.050
Williams continued management is imperative to ensure

01:12:12.050 --> 01:12:14.899
three systems. The three systems in that area continue

01:12:14.899 --> 01:12:17.729
to provide water service that meets the requirements

01:12:17.729 --> 01:12:21.449
of T. C. Q. And our own commission rules um and that

01:12:21.449 --> 01:12:24.020
it comply with the provisions of the Texas water code

01:12:24.029 --> 01:12:27.810
and is safe for public use and consumption. So, considering

01:12:27.810 --> 01:12:30.760
the circumstances around the utility, I would move

01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:33.930
to appoint Mr Williams's temporary manager for v utilities

01:12:33.939 --> 01:12:38.539
for an indefinite term um with a compensation of $15

01:12:38.539 --> 01:12:41.289
per connection per month consistent with our rules

01:12:41.300 --> 01:12:44.270
and his request. Additionally, I would approve the

01:12:44.270 --> 01:12:47.159
proposed waiver of financial assurance. He's gone to

01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:51.079
great effort to make these systems work in the interim

01:12:51.090 --> 01:12:55.199
Um and I would let the motion stand as stated. I agree

01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.130
with everything he said and above and beyond. He's

01:12:57.130 --> 01:13:00.340
put some of his own finances on the table too. Get

01:13:00.340 --> 01:13:03.850
water restored. We appreciate it very much so, we got

01:13:03.850 --> 01:13:08.479
a motion Second motion second all in favor say aye

01:13:09.069 --> 01:13:12.130
I don't oppose the motion passes. Thank you very much

01:13:13.880 --> 01:13:15.640
Thank you and appreciate mr Williams.

01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:21.050
We've already taken up item 14 I don't have anything

01:13:21.050 --> 01:13:25.439
on 15 which brings us through some consented items

01:13:25.439 --> 01:13:32.819
to 17. (item:17:52397) 17 project 52937. The commission review the

01:13:32.819 --> 01:13:36.590
definition of access lines uh under the local government

01:13:36.590 --> 01:13:39.369
code commission staff filed a memorandum recommending

01:13:39.369 --> 01:13:41.609
the commission make no changes to the definition of

01:13:41.609 --> 01:13:42.529
access line.

01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:48.029
I appreciate the effort on this and agree with what

01:13:48.029 --> 01:13:48.600
they say

01:13:50.909 --> 01:13:56.199
no action needed here. I appreciate the staff work

01:13:56.199 --> 01:13:59.170
I don't have anything on 18 which should bring us to

01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:04.100
item 19. (item:19:52154) Item 19 is docket 52154 complaint of MKRR

01:14:04.100 --> 01:14:07.619
 investments LLC against constellation new energy

01:14:07.890 --> 01:14:11.710
A proposal for decision was filed on March 22nd. The

01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:14.220
commission requested briefing regarding the facts of

01:14:14.229 --> 01:14:17.189
PURA the commission's debt obligation order on complaints

01:14:17.699 --> 01:14:20.159
regarding charges build during the week of february

01:14:20.170 --> 01:14:22.050
2021 winter storm.

01:14:23.590 --> 01:14:29.010
Mhm. All right. Uh This is certainly another interesting

01:14:29.020 --> 01:14:33.649
one. Thoughts, comments. Yeah. Mr chairman. I I really

01:14:33.649 --> 01:14:36.619
appreciated the briefing we received from staff on

01:14:36.619 --> 01:14:40.449
this matter and from various parties in their filings

01:14:40.449 --> 01:14:42.939
It has helped clarify a number of positions for me

01:14:42.949 --> 01:14:47.510
Uh First any effect that sub chapter N and the

01:14:47.510 --> 01:14:50.489
commission's debt obligation order will have on given

01:14:50.500 --> 01:14:53.279
the given complaint will depend on the facts of each

01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:55.899
complaint. Sub chapter in being our securitization

01:14:55.899 --> 01:15:00.250
efforts. Uh In in each case the relief for qualifying

01:15:00.250 --> 01:15:03.649
cost is limited to Ancillary services and reliability

01:15:03.649 --> 01:15:06.750
deployment added charges that were passed through to

01:15:06.750 --> 01:15:10.069
consumers. Now, if the facts show that a complaint

01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:13.439
paid or otherwise a complainant paid or otherwise owes

01:15:13.439 --> 01:15:16.789
these qualifying costs, then they will likely be entitled

01:15:16.789 --> 01:15:21.760
to a credit or refund. Um Second, PURA 39 660. And

01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:24.930
the provision requiring adjustments to customer invoices

01:15:24.930 --> 01:15:28.619
in the commission's debt obligation order do not affect

01:15:28.630 --> 01:15:31.340
the scope of the administrative remedies available

01:15:31.340 --> 01:15:35.460
under PURA chapter 17 securitization or the commission's

01:15:35.460 --> 01:15:38.739
customer protection rules. So I believe that sub chapter

01:15:38.739 --> 01:15:42.689
N was intended to operate independently from the remedies

01:15:42.689 --> 01:15:46.470
afforded to customers under those rules and customers

01:15:46.470 --> 01:15:50.840
who receive a bill adjustment under PURA 39 660 

01:15:50.850 --> 01:15:54.270
will still retain the right to pursue all applicable

01:15:54.270 --> 01:15:57.579
relief to which they are entitled including from unauthorized

01:15:57.579 --> 01:16:01.970
charges. So I believe they still have remedy uh third

01:16:01.979 --> 01:16:05.140
the ability of a customer to waive some of the commission's

01:16:05.140 --> 01:16:10.359
customer protection rules under 16 TAC 25  471 subsection

01:16:10.359 --> 01:16:13.810
A and three does not limit the ability of the customers

01:16:13.810 --> 01:16:17.770
to obtain relief under PURA chapter 39. Sub chapter

01:16:17.779 --> 01:16:21.380
N and the commission's debt obligation order. So load

01:16:21.380 --> 01:16:24.220
serving entities who receive sub chapter in bond proceeds

01:16:24.229 --> 01:16:27.819
are required to provide credits or refunds to any customer

01:16:27.970 --> 01:16:31.149
who paid or otherwise owes qualifying costs under sub

01:16:31.149 --> 01:16:33.699
chapter N so they're still entitled to these.

01:16:35.789 --> 01:16:39.399
So where does that leave us on MKRR. At

01:16:39.399 --> 01:16:41.250
this time? I think that the commission should proceed

01:16:41.250 --> 01:16:44.060
to resolve MKRRs Complaint. But the final

01:16:44.060 --> 01:16:46.720
order should make clear that adjudicating these complaints

01:16:46.729 --> 01:16:52.310
on a final order uh complaints on the merits does not

01:16:52.310 --> 01:16:55.130
preclude a customer from bringing a claim under sub

01:16:55.130 --> 01:16:58.079
chapter. And when those claims are right in the future

01:16:58.750 --> 01:17:02.010
at this time, the commission can only adjudicate violations

01:17:02.020 --> 01:17:04.770
of the customer protection rules and customer protection

01:17:04.770 --> 01:17:09.119
provisions of PURA The commission should construe this

01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:11.489
and other existing Winter Storm complaints to solely

01:17:11.489 --> 01:17:15.569
bring solely bring claims under the customer protection

01:17:15.569 --> 01:17:19.020
rules. And so therefore I would move that we adopt

01:17:19.020 --> 01:17:22.869
the PFD in part and reject in part by granting partial

01:17:22.869 --> 01:17:25.800
summary decision only on claims arising under the waivable

01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:28.840
customer protection rules. The commission should perceive

01:17:28.840 --> 01:17:31.760
to resolve MKRRs Complaint. But the final

01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:34.329
order should make clear that adjudicating these complaints

01:17:34.329 --> 01:17:37.619
on the merits does not preclude someone from bringing

01:17:37.619 --> 01:17:41.539
a claim under sub chapter N when those claims are

01:17:41.539 --> 01:17:44.100
right. The commission should then remand the remainder

01:17:44.100 --> 01:17:47.689
of the complaint to docket management. I wanted to

01:17:47.689 --> 01:17:55.479
make sure that again that if if they have a contract

01:17:55.489 --> 01:18:00.479
of a certain threshold and that they have waves rights

01:18:00.489 --> 01:18:04.039
certainly non waivable rights are still retained. They

01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:06.829
can still and that they can still seek remedies under

01:18:06.829 --> 01:18:12.180
sub chapter in when those become apparent, you know

01:18:13.319 --> 01:18:18.529
I'm just trying to make sure that people have the ability

01:18:18.529 --> 01:18:22.060
to pursue their rights as more facts become available

01:18:22.069 --> 01:18:25.100
again. Sub chapter the bonds are flowing out to the

01:18:25.100 --> 01:18:28.510
L. S. E. S as we speak. So I want to make

01:18:28.510 --> 01:18:32.329
sure that as we close these cases out, we're not closing

01:18:32.329 --> 01:18:35.670
the door on their rights moving forward. I agree. And

01:18:35.670 --> 01:18:39.010
I think one of the most important parts of the I think

01:18:39.010 --> 01:18:41.890
I heard you say, is the distinction between customer

01:18:41.890 --> 01:18:45.949
rights and protections and both as a as a as a consumer

01:18:45.949 --> 01:18:49.239
and relationship with their their LSC, but also through

01:18:49.239 --> 01:18:53.560
sub chapter in parallel and separate tracks for both

01:18:53.560 --> 01:18:58.859
the rights and the uh the exercise and complaints within

01:18:58.859 --> 01:19:02.479
those. Okay, make sure I got that right. Very, very

01:19:02.479 --> 01:19:06.670
much agree. Um and then we also need to be careful

01:19:06.670 --> 01:19:10.560
in that um we have to remember, we're going to see

01:19:10.569 --> 01:19:13.609
a lot more of these in the very near future. So I'd

01:19:13.609 --> 01:19:18.050
like to establish a bit of a protocol here amongst

01:19:18.050 --> 01:19:23.020
us on the non waivable claims. Do we, did you want

01:19:23.020 --> 01:19:29.140
to move forward those or or uh or recognize that we

01:19:29.489 --> 01:19:31.220
can't customer can't waive them. So we're not gonna

01:19:31.220 --> 01:19:36.930
give them up. We're not gonna give up thoughts, comments

01:19:37.489 --> 01:19:40.460
fisher Mcadams. Yes, you did impact a lot. And and

01:19:40.460 --> 01:19:43.029
this is very important. Um you know, that we set a

01:19:43.029 --> 01:19:46.390
framework going forward for these types of customer

01:19:46.390 --> 01:19:49.329
complaints back in my my prior role at the Office of

01:19:49.329 --> 01:19:54.479
Public Utility council. Um We got a lot of consumers

01:19:54.479 --> 01:20:00.250
calling us after the winter storm that were small commercial

01:20:00.260 --> 01:20:02.850
maybe a little bit bigger than small commercial consumers

01:20:02.859 --> 01:20:06.930
that had been assessed um that had been passed through

01:20:06.930 --> 01:20:10.569
Ancillary service costs that are qualifying costs ultimately

01:20:10.569 --> 01:20:13.829
for reimbursement or credits through sub chapter in

01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:16.579
securitization process that we put in place here in

01:20:16.579 --> 01:20:18.869
the commission and issued out a debt obligation order

01:20:19.060 --> 01:20:23.060
And so um we encourage them at the time to preserve

01:20:23.060 --> 01:20:27.279
their their rights and document um their concerns by

01:20:27.279 --> 01:20:29.420
following a complaint that the commission. So this

01:20:29.420 --> 01:20:33.899
could be very well one that we um a consumer that we

01:20:33.899 --> 01:20:38.300
got a call for that, that we ultimately um steered

01:20:38.300 --> 01:20:40.829
over to the puc to file a complaint. And so I do

01:20:40.829 --> 01:20:42.569
think that you're going to see a lot of complaints

01:20:42.569 --> 01:20:46.100
come up as a result of the storm. And uh and so

01:20:46.100 --> 01:20:51.479
we need to have a framework where we address the PURA

01:20:51.489 --> 01:20:54.670
chapter 17 customer Protection rules, rights of the

01:20:54.670 --> 01:20:58.710
customer um but also recognize the distinct customer

01:20:58.710 --> 01:21:02.640
rights via the sub chapter in um securitization process

01:21:02.649 --> 01:21:05.699
And here in this case as we are looking at chapter

01:21:05.710 --> 01:21:10.260
17 customer protection rules, I think um we are deciding

01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:15.060
the motion staffs, motion for summary decision based

01:21:15.060 --> 01:21:19.260
on the merits and I think by dismissing that portion

01:21:19.270 --> 01:21:23.319
um we're addressing the waivable provisions but remanding

01:21:23.319 --> 01:21:27.550
back the non waivable provisions even even if MK are

01:21:27.560 --> 01:21:29.600
ultimately doesn't show up because they haven't been

01:21:29.609 --> 01:21:31.579
in the proceeding for quite a while. I think that's

01:21:31.579 --> 01:21:34.210
an important process that we preserve for the consumers

01:21:34.210 --> 01:21:36.800
going forward because they they're non waivable customer

01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:39.170
protections and we can't just close the door on those

01:21:39.170 --> 01:21:42.229
and in our order and as part of the process going forward

01:21:42.239 --> 01:21:45.930
and with respect to sub chapter in um in securitization

01:21:45.930 --> 01:21:49.850
we've we've approved a process for the reps to credit

01:21:49.850 --> 01:21:55.560
and um Refund those customers in in our framework that

01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:58.670
we developed and approved in docket number 527 10.

01:21:58.680 --> 01:22:01.619
And ultimately if that process isn't followed then

01:22:01.619 --> 01:22:05.069
there are enforcement actions that we can take. So

01:22:05.079 --> 01:22:11.510
so just to clarify in layman speak, um yeah I know

01:22:11.510 --> 01:22:14.039
me too, a lot of these people are representing themselves

01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:18.680
pro se. Um it's gonna require you as a complainant

01:22:18.689 --> 01:22:23.090
to remain engaged. So when this goes back to staff

01:22:23.100 --> 01:22:26.350
they're gonna ask you to follow up and you either follow

01:22:26.350 --> 01:22:29.680
up or you don't and it could result in the same outcome

01:22:29.689 --> 01:22:33.760
which means, you know, the complaint does not move

01:22:33.760 --> 01:22:37.500
forward. Um So I I know that the L. S. E. S

01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:40.220
Would like us to just close the door right now and

01:22:40.229 --> 01:22:42.659
take the cloud off of them, but that's not our job

01:22:42.659 --> 01:22:44.880
here, we've we've got to maintain the protections under

01:22:44.880 --> 01:22:48.640
PURA that they're entitled to. So it requires all parties

01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:50.399
to stay engaged for one last step.

01:22:52.949 --> 01:22:55.359
One other point we had talked about and throw out to

01:22:55.359 --> 01:22:57.779
you. We had talked about the fact that these are pro

01:22:57.779 --> 01:23:01.510
say that there were the two conclusions of law about

01:23:01.510 --> 01:23:05.119
them, not specifically pleading specific provisions

01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:10.409
of our rule um that related to the non waivable provisions

01:23:10.409 --> 01:23:13.760
that that we're not agreeing with those provisions

01:23:13.770 --> 01:23:16.689
and the commission's jurisdiction to hear these complaints

01:23:16.689 --> 01:23:23.390
aren't based upon how a party pleads their case when

01:23:23.390 --> 01:23:26.630
they make a complaint like this. We're not that hypertechnical

01:23:28.340 --> 01:23:31.239
of course. So that would include the leading conclusion

01:23:31.250 --> 01:23:35.470
conclusion of law number five and 10 to reject those

01:23:35.470 --> 01:23:38.890
two conclusions of law. Exactly yes, deleting them

01:23:38.899 --> 01:23:42.640
and then also adding a new ordering paragraph that

01:23:42.640 --> 01:23:44.979
addresses the relevance of sub chapter in the commission's

01:23:44.979 --> 01:23:47.119
that obligation order in that the commission is not

01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:50.479
adjudicating any of em que are our rights under sub

01:23:50.479 --> 01:23:54.000
chapter chapter 39 sub chapter in a PURA or the commission

01:23:55.779 --> 01:24:00.399
and that's what you got that good in the transcript

01:24:01.430 --> 01:24:05.229
Okay, so I would make the motion uh consistent with

01:24:05.229 --> 01:24:11.010
our discussion second got a motion in a second. All

01:24:11.010 --> 01:24:14.590
in favor say aye, aye, opposed motion passes.

01:24:17.100 --> 01:24:19.770
Next item on the police on the agenda. (item:23:52357)

01:24:19.890 --> 01:24:26.880
believe next item is 23 docket 53257 compliance filing

01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:30.699
of energy Texas regarding right back riders tariff

01:24:30.840 --> 01:24:33.029
in accordance with the commission's order and docket

01:24:33.039 --> 01:24:39.260
51381. uh just first announced Commissioner Cobos has

01:24:39.260 --> 01:24:42.739
recused herself from this item. A proposed order was

01:24:42.739 --> 01:24:45.859
filed on May six, the LJ filed a correction memo on

01:24:45.859 --> 01:24:49.579
May 17 and I have a memo with proposed changes to the

01:24:49.579 --> 01:24:54.020
order to thank you sir. It seems fairly straightforward

01:24:54.020 --> 01:24:57.880
other than a potential need for a good cause, exceptional

01:24:57.890 --> 01:25:01.739
thoughts, comments. Mr Chairman, I agree with the good

01:25:01.739 --> 01:25:06.239
cause exception for the requirement of 16 TAC 25

01:25:06.239 --> 01:25:10.840
248 subsection C. And one with respect to the relate

01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:14.380
back. Um to me this is a question of timing uh and

01:25:14.380 --> 01:25:17.899
ultimately we need to clarify uh that timing in our

01:25:17.899 --> 01:25:22.149
rules however, because of staff constraints and everything

01:25:22.149 --> 01:25:24.390
that we're doing here, I would argue we need to do

01:25:24.390 --> 01:25:26.260
that at a later date and take these on a case by

01:25:26.260 --> 01:25:30.850
case basis uh in the interim. But I think that's the

01:25:30.850 --> 01:25:34.829
reason we need to approve the good cause agreed fair

01:25:34.829 --> 01:25:35.989
enough. Um

01:25:37.630 --> 01:25:43.399
the uh, works for me and timings and constraints aren't

01:25:43.399 --> 01:25:46.800
ideal, but as long as we, one day we're gonna get to

01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:50.239
the point where we can, you know, smooth out some rules

01:25:50.250 --> 01:25:54.029
get it in one single GCR okay, we put that in a

01:25:54.039 --> 01:26:01.909
frame and uh, so I would move to approve the proposed

01:26:01.909 --> 01:26:05.210
order and additionally move to grant good cause for

01:26:05.210 --> 01:26:10.470
the requirement um of 16 to 25.248 subsection C one

01:26:10.489 --> 01:26:14.689
with respect to the relate back motion in a second

01:26:14.689 --> 01:26:17.470
All in favor say, aye unopposed.

01:26:19.239 --> 01:26:20.760
Next item please sir.

01:26:23.210 --> 01:26:30.359
(item:33:53403) I believe the next item I show service item 33 um project

01:26:30.369 --> 01:26:35.050
53403. Review a chapter 25 101 Uh Commission

01:26:35.050 --> 01:26:38.039
staff filed a memo and a proposal for publication to

01:26:38.039 --> 01:26:42.210
amend the CCN rule uh Commissioner Cobos and Commissioner

01:26:42.210 --> 01:26:46.020
Glotfelty each have filed a memorandum in this project

01:26:49.140 --> 01:26:51.109
Alright, um

01:26:52.869 --> 01:26:57.319
mr smelter, would you be so kind as to set the stage

01:26:57.319 --> 01:26:57.710
for us?

01:26:59.380 --> 01:27:02.460
Sure, Commissioners, before you have a proposal for

01:27:02.460 --> 01:27:05.600
publication this rule hand oils a number of items but

01:27:05.609 --> 01:27:09.390
the the key provisions of this is the implementation

01:27:09.390 --> 01:27:14.369
of 1281, which is the consumer benefit test um for

01:27:14.369 --> 01:27:17.850
routing of transmission lines. Um The present circumstances

01:27:17.850 --> 01:27:20.119
for years we've been using a production cost savings

01:27:20.119 --> 01:27:24.029
test. ERCOT has ceased evaluating economic transmission

01:27:24.029 --> 01:27:26.609
projects under this test since the passage of SB 12

01:27:26.609 --> 01:27:29.810
81 looking for further guidance under how they should

01:27:29.810 --> 01:27:33.579
evaluate economic transmission projects. Um the sort

01:27:33.579 --> 01:27:35.479
of stated intent of all the commissioners is, we need

01:27:35.479 --> 01:27:38.090
to get this going as quickly as possible. So staff

01:27:38.090 --> 01:27:43.170
has provided a route to do so by um you know, if

01:27:43.170 --> 01:27:46.229
this proposal is adopted, it will direct ERCOT to immediately

01:27:46.229 --> 01:27:48.689
reinstate the old generator revenue reduction test

01:27:48.699 --> 01:27:51.489
while it's developing a production cost savings test

01:27:51.500 --> 01:27:54.800
um and I know that the memos address a few dynamics

01:27:54.800 --> 01:27:58.729
of the formula that will be under the new test. Another

01:27:58.729 --> 01:28:02.000
component of this rule is it includes provisions that

01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:05.489
would allow our ERCOT to consider resiliency as a plus

01:28:05.489 --> 01:28:08.680
factor in the approval of transmission lines Um and

01:28:08.680 --> 01:28:11.600
I know that the memos also address whether or not that

01:28:11.609 --> 01:28:14.869
is proper for inclusion in this rulemaking or something

01:28:14.869 --> 01:28:18.340
that we should defer to future discussions. And I also

01:28:18.340 --> 01:28:22.159
note that one aspect that is relevant to both of these

01:28:22.159 --> 01:28:26.420
components is 1281 required the implementation of a

01:28:26.420 --> 01:28:29.210
grid reliability study which would be a by biennial

01:28:29.210 --> 01:28:32.630
study that ERCOT would do every two years to to identify

01:28:32.630 --> 01:28:36.399
and suggest reliability based projects. Commission

01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:40.649
staff's proposal suggests expanding that to also identify

01:28:40.659 --> 01:28:43.489
areas with resiliency issues on the grid and this would

01:28:43.500 --> 01:28:48.359
be the foundation for uh the plus factor for resiliency

01:28:48.369 --> 01:28:51.220
lines, should the commission choose to go in that direction

01:28:51.220 --> 01:28:53.579
So, I'm happy to answer any questions about these components

01:28:53.579 --> 01:28:57.590
or other components of this rule or to assist in the

01:28:57.590 --> 01:29:00.229
discussion in any way you guys require. Thank you Mr

01:29:00.229 --> 01:29:04.479
Smeltzer. Before we, before I asked Commissioner Glotfelty

01:29:04.479 --> 01:29:07.350
to lay out their memos if woody wouldn't mind coming

01:29:07.350 --> 01:29:17.050
up and uh if he's willing give us a practice a brief

01:29:17.050 --> 01:29:21.710
summary over the last 10 years of what the different

01:29:21.710 --> 01:29:25.039
versions of the transmission test look like in practice

01:29:25.050 --> 01:29:29.659
at ERCOT uh well we used to do, what changed and how

01:29:29.659 --> 01:29:36.050
we, how we do it now. So we, in 2010, 2011 time

01:29:36.050 --> 01:29:40.609
frame, we had a production cost test and we would

01:29:42.300 --> 01:29:45.600
justify projects using the production cost test, meaning

01:29:45.609 --> 01:29:50.569
that if a transmission line resulted in a less expensive

01:29:50.569 --> 01:29:56.069
set of generators running to supply the same Load then

01:29:56.079 --> 01:29:58.890
that might justify a project. So that was a production

01:29:58.890 --> 01:30:05.050
cost. We also had a consumer benefit test, also called

01:30:05.050 --> 01:30:10.079
a generator revenue requirement test. And so that test

01:30:10.079 --> 01:30:13.729
looks at for the same Load if you add a transmission

01:30:13.729 --> 01:30:21.109
line, what do consumers pay generators? So if transmission

01:30:21.109 --> 01:30:24.789
line results and consumers paying the same set of generators

01:30:24.789 --> 01:30:27.800
less money, if that's enough of a savings that could

01:30:27.800 --> 01:30:31.649
justify, That was those were our two standards 10 years

01:30:31.649 --> 01:30:33.229
ago along with reliability,

01:30:35.329 --> 01:30:39.000
get back to my favorite layman's terms. The first one

01:30:39.000 --> 01:30:41.420
was if we, if we can build this, the cost of transmission

01:30:41.420 --> 01:30:45.390
line brings lower cost generation online. That's a

01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:48.869
that's an approval. And then also the second one was

01:30:48.880 --> 01:30:53.560
if That transmission line can get power to the same

01:30:53.560 --> 01:30:56.750
load by relieving essentially relieving congestion

01:30:56.760 --> 01:31:00.689
That's also cause for approval, that's right, Okay

01:31:00.699 --> 01:31:04.609
so I don't remember the exact year, but we, we quit

01:31:04.619 --> 01:31:09.270
using the uh generator revenue or, or consumer benefit

01:31:09.270 --> 01:31:11.859
test and only had the production cost test and we continue

01:31:11.859 --> 01:31:15.880
to use the production cost test up until when 1281

01:31:15.880 --> 01:31:19.069
was passed, that 2015 is in that timeframe is.

01:31:20.739 --> 01:31:24.239
So we've continued to use the production cost test

01:31:25.140 --> 01:31:31.189
I think out of there have been two Economically approved

01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:35.149
transmission projects in the last 18 or 20 projects

01:31:35.149 --> 01:31:39.699
something like that. So there haven't been a lot, but

01:31:39.699 --> 01:31:45.319
there have been a few and most projects are approved

01:31:45.329 --> 01:31:49.229
with the reliability test. So reliability test just

01:31:49.229 --> 01:31:54.170
means that, um, For the given load and the given set

01:31:54.170 --> 01:31:56.680
of generators, there's no re dispatch you can do to

01:31:56.680 --> 01:31:58.770
keep something from overloading. You've got to build

01:31:58.770 --> 01:32:02.050
something or improve something in -1 and -1. That's

01:32:02.050 --> 01:32:07.979
right. So those are the three tests that we do Or have

01:32:07.979 --> 01:32:10.470
done in the past. We currently only have two Senate

01:32:10.470 --> 01:32:15.359
Bill three says add a congestion savings test back

01:32:15.359 --> 01:32:18.890
in. So that's where we are today. That's where this

01:32:18.890 --> 01:32:23.550
rule. Thank you sir. I love the layman's terms. All

01:32:23.550 --> 01:32:28.550
right. I've got two memos to lay out. Uh, who filed

01:32:28.550 --> 01:32:29.000
first.

01:32:30.710 --> 01:32:34.779
I think I think Commissioner Cobos is first. All right

01:32:34.779 --> 01:32:37.489
Commissioner, I don't know first, but mine was upended

01:32:37.500 --> 01:32:41.899
first. But okay, great. Thank you and thank you for

01:32:41.899 --> 01:32:44.930
being here. I do want to thank staff for developing

01:32:44.930 --> 01:32:49.029
this proposal for publication. Very important piece

01:32:49.029 --> 01:32:52.050
of legislation. I guess just to kind of set the table

01:32:52.050 --> 01:32:56.000
I generally agree with most of what's in the rule.

01:32:56.319 --> 01:33:00.020
Um, my memo was just intended to set the table for

01:33:00.020 --> 01:33:02.720
our evaluation consideration of the of the publication

01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:07.180
and um focus on what I believe are S B 12 81

01:33:07.189 --> 01:33:10.600
important policy goals and key provisions that are

01:33:10.600 --> 01:33:14.069
focused on, as we've described here today on the new

01:33:14.069 --> 01:33:17.939
economic criteria that ERCOT will now be required to

01:33:17.939 --> 01:33:20.270
take into consideration is the review proposed transmission

01:33:20.270 --> 01:33:23.949
projects that focused on congestion uh cost savings

01:33:23.949 --> 01:33:27.369
for consumers, which is very important given all of

01:33:27.369 --> 01:33:30.270
the congestion costs that are currently being experienced

01:33:30.270 --> 01:33:34.069
today. Um second piece obviously is a new reliability

01:33:34.069 --> 01:33:38.180
criteria that adds new requirements for con taken consideration

01:33:38.180 --> 01:33:43.159
on historical Load forecasting, variety about new interconnections

01:33:43.170 --> 01:33:46.210
being um, loads being interconnected. And then the

01:33:46.210 --> 01:33:49.539
third piece, which is also very important is the great

01:33:49.539 --> 01:33:53.079
assessment of, or culture assessment of greater liability

01:33:53.079 --> 01:33:56.789
extreme weather conditions, those in my mind are the

01:33:56.800 --> 01:34:01.899
three core um areas of focus of 12 81 that are extremely

01:34:01.899 --> 01:34:06.359
important for for us to move forward on um based on

01:34:06.359 --> 01:34:10.210
prior open meeting discussions, I have been a very

01:34:10.210 --> 01:34:12.289
strong proponent along with Commissioner Glotfelty

01:34:12.300 --> 01:34:15.520
looking at resiliency. I think that is a very important

01:34:15.520 --> 01:34:18.890
matter that we must look at. Um we just heard a ton

01:34:18.890 --> 01:34:21.789
of public comments here, talking about variety of measures

01:34:21.789 --> 01:34:26.079
that, you know, addressing extreme weather um, in the

01:34:26.079 --> 01:34:28.920
future and, and I do think that that is a very important

01:34:28.930 --> 01:34:32.800
area, but I also think it's a very broad, complex area

01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:35.539
that just doesn't look at hardening the system. It's

01:34:35.539 --> 01:34:39.350
a variety of measures um, from making sure the system

01:34:39.350 --> 01:34:41.850
is operational from a human resource standpoint and

01:34:41.850 --> 01:34:43.890
all kinds of, you know, extreme weather conditions

01:34:43.890 --> 01:34:48.319
It's it's important. Um, and I do want to keep it on

01:34:48.319 --> 01:34:52.460
the table. My only thought process via my memo was

01:34:52.470 --> 01:34:55.079
was that I would like to just have a broader discussion

01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:58.340
on whether we should include the proposed language

01:34:58.340 --> 01:35:01.199
that staff has included on resiliency in the role.

01:35:01.210 --> 01:35:01.850
Um,

01:35:03.550 --> 01:35:09.220
because I from after going kind of evaluating this

01:35:09.220 --> 01:35:12.470
issue over and over again. Um, and and I've been a

01:35:12.470 --> 01:35:14.319
strong proponent of moving forward as soon as possible

01:35:14.319 --> 01:35:18.560
on this issue. I do want to be cognizant of the fact

01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:20.899
that any language you put in the rule and I know this

01:35:20.909 --> 01:35:23.359
proposal for publication will get more comments back

01:35:23.359 --> 01:35:27.529
on it. Um, we don't want to center ourselves down a

01:35:27.539 --> 01:35:31.869
path where we're opening a pandora's box on, you know

01:35:32.390 --> 01:35:36.270
projects and consumer costs. We gotta remain cognizant

01:35:36.279 --> 01:35:39.109
on a balance between resiliency and consumer costs

01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:42.819
And in order to get gain that balance, I I would like

01:35:42.819 --> 01:35:45.970
to take a more deliberative approach and in defining

01:35:45.970 --> 01:35:51.770
resiliency number one, number two, establishing appropriate

01:35:51.770 --> 01:35:55.210
criteria, whether it's a third test or one baked in

01:35:55.220 --> 01:35:58.090
Ultimately, like staff has proposed that's a sub factor

01:35:58.090 --> 01:36:01.399
on economic and reliability, but also being much more

01:36:01.399 --> 01:36:04.800
deliberate on that criteria. So that ERCOT can properly

01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:09.350
evaluate that, that factor through their regional transmission

01:36:09.350 --> 01:36:13.300
plan and process that's an annual process that ERCOT

01:36:13.300 --> 01:36:15.619
conducts on reviewing proposed projects in the future

01:36:15.619 --> 01:36:18.840
And so ultimately I just wanted to have a broader discussion

01:36:18.840 --> 01:36:22.859
on on whether or not we move forward with the interim

01:36:22.869 --> 01:36:25.979
path on resiliency that allows ERCOT to start looking

01:36:25.979 --> 01:36:29.439
at these projects or we put a pause and address the

01:36:29.439 --> 01:36:34.789
entire issue in a separate project. I also proposed

01:36:34.789 --> 01:36:38.010
the change to a specific change to ERCOT evaluation

01:36:38.010 --> 01:36:42.079
of congestion stadiums and that is um an evaluation

01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:45.750
of based on my discussions with with you woody um you

01:36:45.750 --> 01:36:49.260
have stated that ERCOT through its modeling processes

01:36:49.270 --> 01:36:53.109
of proposed economic projects that ERCOT looks out

01:36:53.109 --> 01:36:56.220
six years in the future because that is as far as they

01:36:56.220 --> 01:37:00.100
can look with certainty and so and I know commissioner

01:37:00.100 --> 01:37:02.489
Glotfelty you have some thoughts on this and we definitely

01:37:02.489 --> 01:37:05.000
can talk through what what's the appropriate horizon

01:37:05.000 --> 01:37:07.289
to look out into. But I thought well if you're gonna

01:37:07.289 --> 01:37:11.090
look out um six years out for congestion cost savings

01:37:11.090 --> 01:37:13.640
will perhaps we should look at maybe adjusting the

01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:15.989
transmission revenue requirement and I recognize that

01:37:15.989 --> 01:37:19.069
that will to six years out, I recognize that that will

01:37:19.079 --> 01:37:23.060
result in additional economic transmission projects

01:37:23.069 --> 01:37:25.109
being built but we just heard from you woody today

01:37:25.109 --> 01:37:26.989
that only two have been built and I think the last

01:37:26.989 --> 01:37:31.260
decade out of economic criteria and we have a lot of

01:37:31.260 --> 01:37:35.899
congestion costs on the system right now and and I

01:37:35.899 --> 01:37:39.149
don't think that, you know when we balance out economic

01:37:39.159 --> 01:37:42.710
benefits for consumers and and and build out of economic

01:37:42.710 --> 01:37:45.029
transmission projects, I think we might be able to

01:37:45.029 --> 01:37:48.960
just kind of unlock that process a little bit more

01:37:48.970 --> 01:37:52.270
It has seemed very conservative in the past and I know

01:37:52.270 --> 01:37:54.800
that's a policy called for us and Woody um I think

01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:58.300
you've stated that whatever you give us on the transmission

01:37:58.300 --> 01:38:00.229
revenue requirement, you can just plug into the model

01:38:00.229 --> 01:38:02.739
that that's a policy call for the commission to make

01:38:02.739 --> 01:38:07.649
So I I propose that as a potential um issue to look

01:38:07.649 --> 01:38:11.750
at. I also wanted to emphasize that um while I agree

01:38:11.750 --> 01:38:15.630
with staff proposed language that the ultimate consumer

01:38:15.640 --> 01:38:19.250
congestion cost savings test that that are caught approves

01:38:19.250 --> 01:38:22.300
the final one would come back to us for final approval

01:38:22.300 --> 01:38:25.350
because of the impact that that test will have on ERCOT

01:38:25.350 --> 01:38:30.489
ratepayers and um be a protocol for our final review

01:38:30.489 --> 01:38:37.069
and approval and then last um I proposed a directive

01:38:37.069 --> 01:38:40.670
to market um to require that the independent review

01:38:40.680 --> 01:38:43.649
of proposed projects be completed within the 150 day

01:38:43.649 --> 01:38:46.789
timeline that's in the protocols um as currently written

01:38:46.789 --> 01:38:49.909
the protocols state that ERCOT will attempt to get

01:38:49.909 --> 01:38:53.470
it done within 100 and 50 days based on my discussion

01:38:53.479 --> 01:38:58.010
with Woody and uh it appears that ERCOT treats it as

01:38:58.010 --> 01:39:02.859
a requirement and and strives to meet that deadline

01:39:02.869 --> 01:39:08.090
but I think by mandating it in the protocols we provide

01:39:08.090 --> 01:39:13.500
a more defined requirement there. So ERCOT can um get

01:39:13.500 --> 01:39:15.939
that independent review process as what he has stated

01:39:15.949 --> 01:39:18.159
that is being done right now. That is not being done

01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:23.210
with the problem at all. Um Just so that um we can

01:39:23.210 --> 01:39:27.630
provide more of a step towards more efficiency in the

01:39:27.630 --> 01:39:29.880
transmission planning processes. ERCOT is going to

01:39:29.880 --> 01:39:34.470
start reviewing more projects by way of economic criteria

01:39:34.479 --> 01:39:37.779
and continue to look at reliability and and critical

01:39:37.789 --> 01:39:40.090
reliability projects.

01:39:45.170 --> 01:39:47.869
On the last point staff wanted to make sure they're

01:39:47.869 --> 01:39:49.869
reading the memo correctly. You weren't intending that

01:39:49.869 --> 01:39:53.439
to be that we include the 150 day language in this

01:39:53.439 --> 01:39:55.390
rule if that's the way the commission decides to go

01:39:55.390 --> 01:39:59.590
that was a protocol direction. Yes. Outside of the

01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:04.479
just as a Interim first step to start creating some

01:40:04.479 --> 01:40:09.310
efficiency to allow orcas um to review proposed projects

01:40:09.319 --> 01:40:14.600
under 1281 within that 150 thank you for the clarification

01:40:15.500 --> 01:40:18.659
Uh we've got a lot of policy points in there that we

01:40:18.659 --> 01:40:20.890
can dive into after commissioner glotfelty lays this

01:40:20.890 --> 01:40:24.550
out but on the procedural point about 250 days I certainly

01:40:24.560 --> 01:40:27.670
support increased accountability and efficiency in

01:40:27.680 --> 01:40:31.310
all areas of what we're doing but if if if we are

01:40:31.310 --> 01:40:35.210
going to ratchet it up on the market side. I think

01:40:35.210 --> 01:40:38.380
we need to make sure to complement that with a requirement

01:40:38.380 --> 01:40:42.510
on the T. D. P. S. Tsp side. So that ERCOT so

01:40:42.510 --> 01:40:45.550
that any information required or other correspondence

01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:49.060
that the ERCOT staff needs to complete the 150 mandate

01:40:49.069 --> 01:40:54.390
uh must be provided by the counter party. Uh So I don't

01:40:54.390 --> 01:40:57.319
know what that looks like but between now and when

01:40:57.319 --> 01:41:00.979
we take this rule up again uh I think we should consider

01:41:00.979 --> 01:41:04.250
that so we we make sure there's accountability for

01:41:04.250 --> 01:41:07.770
everybody and a shot clock for all parties. Absolutely

01:41:07.770 --> 01:41:10.640
and that is what I contemplated my memo is that by

01:41:10.649 --> 01:41:14.619
ERCOT going to amending their protocol within that

01:41:14.630 --> 01:41:17.420
framework that they have the opportunity to develop

01:41:17.420 --> 01:41:20.409
a framework where they can work more efficiently with

01:41:20.409 --> 01:41:22.569
the T. S. P. S to get all the information they need

01:41:22.579 --> 01:41:26.869
so they can meet that 150 day deadline and so um perhaps

01:41:26.869 --> 01:41:29.239
woody you can provide us with maybe some kind of a

01:41:29.239 --> 01:41:32.640
proposed plan or how that would work um with respect

01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:38.579
to um ensuring that um or ERCOT gets all the information

01:41:38.579 --> 01:41:41.279
they need to meet. That That's something we can keep

01:41:41.279 --> 01:41:43.810
in consideration and evaluate over the next 30 days

01:41:44.619 --> 01:41:49.069
in comments on the yeah because I mean it's just another

01:41:49.069 --> 01:41:52.579
topic that could be addressed. There's more than one

01:41:54.939 --> 01:41:57.199
and look for options on that. I'm sure that

01:41:59.489 --> 01:42:03.090
oh if we did want to include something like that in

01:42:03.100 --> 01:42:05.189
the final rule upon adoption we would probably need

01:42:05.189 --> 01:42:09.180
to include a question or something to notice it. That

01:42:09.180 --> 01:42:10.640
was I was saying since they were doing coming through

01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:12.489
high school was trying to be crystal clear that if

01:42:12.500 --> 01:42:14.359
there is any chance we wanted to be an adoption, we

01:42:14.359 --> 01:42:16.840
need something in the proposal. I think we'll hear

01:42:16.840 --> 01:42:19.130
independently from the TSB is not separate from the

01:42:19.130 --> 01:42:21.960
rulemaking. Perfect. Feel confident. I don't want to

01:42:21.960 --> 01:42:24.520
put any language in the role that ties our hands because

01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:26.989
I know that ultimately we're going to be taking a deeper

01:42:26.989 --> 01:42:29.449
dive into the transmission planning process to look

01:42:29.449 --> 01:42:31.970
at additional efficiencies we can gain in the future

01:42:31.970 --> 01:42:34.119
So I don't want to tie our hands in the actual role

01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:34.949
I

01:42:37.659 --> 01:42:40.229
just want to get that procedural non rule related.

01:42:40.369 --> 01:42:44.140
I just want to get that out there. Thank you for laying

01:42:44.140 --> 01:42:47.960
out uh Commissioner Glotfelty Please lay out your member

01:42:47.970 --> 01:42:51.920
Thank you. Um first of all, I do want to um thank

01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:55.899
the staff you know, and uh the the expeditious nature

01:42:55.899 --> 01:42:59.109
of us getting this done. Obviously Representative Darby

01:42:59.109 --> 01:43:01.260
and others over in the legislature have said we're

01:43:01.270 --> 01:43:06.000
we're behind their expected expected uh implementation

01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:10.050
date. But with everything that we've done since the

01:43:10.060 --> 01:43:13.159
legislative session, I think this is a pretty darn

01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:15.720
good track record and I appreciate the staff and and

01:43:15.720 --> 01:43:20.460
members of the market for being being part of this

01:43:21.130 --> 01:43:24.729
Um so a couple of things I I have two different views

01:43:24.739 --> 01:43:29.850
on on these issues. First of all, um on 12 81 we

01:43:29.850 --> 01:43:32.939
obviously in my opinion believe that we have to get

01:43:32.939 --> 01:43:35.420
this passed. We have to get this into publication.

01:43:35.430 --> 01:43:37.739
We have to get comments because we have to be done

01:43:37.739 --> 01:43:40.489
with this fairly quick. The legislature wants it. Uh

01:43:40.500 --> 01:43:42.609
we've been ordered to make it happen, we've got to

01:43:42.609 --> 01:43:45.279
make it happen in the best way we can. The question

01:43:45.279 --> 01:43:51.310
is for me, um, is the test, um, or the components of

01:43:51.310 --> 01:43:54.649
the test, correct? Commissioner Cobos um, suggested

01:43:54.649 --> 01:43:57.729
that we average costs and benefits over a six year

01:43:57.729 --> 01:44:01.750
period in my memo, I lay out 10 years. The reason for

01:44:01.750 --> 01:44:07.289
the difference is Transmission lines last 40 or 50

01:44:07.289 --> 01:44:11.340
years in our system and you don't see transmission

01:44:11.340 --> 01:44:14.569
lines get taken down after their useful life. They

01:44:14.569 --> 01:44:18.270
continue to provide more and more benefits the longer

01:44:18.270 --> 01:44:21.739
they're in service many times they get rebuilt but

01:44:21.739 --> 01:44:24.359
there's value in the rights of way, there's value in

01:44:24.359 --> 01:44:28.590
the structures, there's value in that line for reliability

01:44:28.600 --> 01:44:33.460
We have a very simple test in ERCOT and uh we, we've

01:44:33.470 --> 01:44:36.489
had the economic test. Um, people have complained that

01:44:36.489 --> 01:44:38.630
the economic test, transmission doesn't get built in

01:44:38.630 --> 01:44:40.670
the economic test. It has to become the reliability

01:44:40.670 --> 01:44:43.520
test before lines get built here. Let me just say,

01:44:43.520 --> 01:44:46.270
we have built a lot of transmission in this state to

01:44:46.270 --> 01:44:48.800
the benefit of market and the staff and to the benefit

01:44:48.800 --> 01:44:51.399
of the T. D. S. P. S and the consumers, we have

01:44:51.399 --> 01:44:54.199
built a lot of transmission. The problems that are

01:44:54.199 --> 01:44:56.640
in the queue and the problems that are building transmission

01:44:56.640 --> 01:44:59.399
all across the United States are not the problems that

01:44:59.399 --> 01:45:02.859
we have here. We've been blessed with a structure that

01:45:02.859 --> 01:45:06.069
allows us to build the question is, is it correct?

01:45:06.079 --> 01:45:08.550
And is it something that we need for what our market's

01:45:08.550 --> 01:45:13.159
gonna look like going forward? So to me, um, taking

01:45:13.170 --> 01:45:17.329
a looking at a average cost over a 10 year period is

01:45:17.340 --> 01:45:22.350
um, is the right approach because it's 25% of the depreciated

01:45:22.350 --> 01:45:24.920
life of the asset. So you're still leaving lots of

01:45:24.920 --> 01:45:27.829
benefits on the table that you're not accounting for

01:45:27.840 --> 01:45:30.720
It doesn't sync up with the six year planning process

01:45:30.729 --> 01:45:34.890
of ERCOT but in my opinion, there are two different

01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:39.600
issues. The planning process does not have to equal

01:45:39.609 --> 01:45:43.560
the time horizon that we look on, the economic benefits

01:45:43.560 --> 01:45:46.869
process because in fact the benefits are gonna be going

01:45:46.869 --> 01:45:49.609
on for decades beyond their planning process. So the

01:45:49.609 --> 01:45:53.119
question is, does it match, does it match up to me

01:45:53.119 --> 01:45:58.579
that's not a um, a really important issue. The question

01:45:58.579 --> 01:46:04.310
is, can we identify issues that provide economic values

01:46:04.319 --> 01:46:08.960
to consumers if they are built? Another part of looking

01:46:08.960 --> 01:46:13.869
at a 10-year test? Um, is it will bring in more transmission

01:46:13.869 --> 01:46:16.899
lines. This does not mean more transmission lines will

01:46:16.899 --> 01:46:21.079
get built necessarily. This means that more lines where

01:46:21.079 --> 01:46:23.930
there is potentially congestions or benefits will be

01:46:23.930 --> 01:46:28.310
identified. This is the beginning of the process, not

01:46:28.310 --> 01:46:31.600
the end of the process and the more areas we identify

01:46:31.609 --> 01:46:35.250
the more opportunity there is for generators to go

01:46:35.250 --> 01:46:38.270
and build in certain areas and eliminate the need for

01:46:38.270 --> 01:46:42.289
building transmission lines. So there is a component

01:46:42.289 --> 01:46:45.920
here that we are giving the market a better understanding

01:46:45.920 --> 01:46:49.170
of where they should be building by looking at, by

01:46:49.180 --> 01:46:54.390
by giving ERCOT a um creating a longer test and identifying

01:46:54.390 --> 01:46:58.279
more potential lines that uh where there could be benefits

01:46:58.289 --> 01:47:04.779
Um it's my hope that next year as we continue the transmission

01:47:04.789 --> 01:47:08.310
discussion, I think this is the tip of the iceberg

01:47:08.319 --> 01:47:11.659
We've talked about getting deep into transmission planning

01:47:11.939 --> 01:47:15.170
um being better stewards of rights of way with higher

01:47:15.170 --> 01:47:19.329
voltage lines or different technologies, how we would

01:47:19.329 --> 01:47:21.970
eliminate generic transmission constraints and and

01:47:21.979 --> 01:47:25.869
other things um those are for next year, those are

01:47:25.869 --> 01:47:28.060
for things that we've got to take a deep dive into

01:47:28.069 --> 01:47:33.060
one of those areas is resiliency. Um but I believe

01:47:33.060 --> 01:47:37.050
we need to have a placeholder here um between now and

01:47:37.050 --> 01:47:39.189
the time we do that, we're gonna have another winner

01:47:39.199 --> 01:47:42.920
We're not gonna have another opportunity for another

01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:46.359
major storm and God forbid we have what happened uh

01:47:46.369 --> 01:47:49.989
with winter storm Uri. Um but if we can get in a

01:47:49.989 --> 01:47:53.930
process and identification of some lines that promote

01:47:53.939 --> 01:47:58.029
resiliency and the definition that we have that we're

01:47:58.029 --> 01:48:00.979
thinking about that ERCOT is thinking about which is

01:48:00.989 --> 01:48:10.119
um ensuring that consumers um recover or are eliminated

01:48:10.119 --> 01:48:13.909
from. Load shed situations altogether in a quicker

01:48:13.909 --> 01:48:18.800
time frame. Um I think it's important that we give

01:48:18.800 --> 01:48:22.479
them that flexibility now. If we ask them to identify

01:48:22.489 --> 01:48:25.279
lines that are critical for resiliency, it does not

01:48:25.279 --> 01:48:28.380
mean that they will all get built, it means that we

01:48:28.380 --> 01:48:30.600
are identifying things that could have value to our

01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:33.930
consumers and that doesn't mean that every single one

01:48:33.930 --> 01:48:35.949
of them will come to us. We're gonna have to have a

01:48:35.949 --> 01:48:39.800
process to identify a large contingency of what resiliency

01:48:39.800 --> 01:48:43.039
looks like because we'll have reliability lines, economic

01:48:43.039 --> 01:48:45.359
lines, resiliency lines, I think those are the three

01:48:45.359 --> 01:48:49.350
buckets in the future, but to just not have any of

01:48:49.350 --> 01:48:54.750
this resiliency discussion now and not have a ERCOT

01:48:54.750 --> 01:48:59.340
looking into it uh in my view is a shortsighted and

01:48:59.350 --> 01:49:02.250
is something that would be somewhat of a misstep with

01:49:02.250 --> 01:49:07.689
the winner facing us with with generation profiles

01:49:07.689 --> 01:49:11.819
continuing to change. Um so anyway, again, my view

01:49:11.819 --> 01:49:16.109
is this is the tip of the iceberg. Um I think the

01:49:16.109 --> 01:49:20.609
most important thing today is to get this um this rule

01:49:20.609 --> 01:49:24.189
for publication passed today, get it in the public

01:49:24.189 --> 01:49:29.590
domain um and uh continue to understand and make the

01:49:29.590 --> 01:49:33.539
case for why we need this um and and and get it

01:49:33.539 --> 01:49:37.130
completed. So I'm happy to answer questions um, if

01:49:37.130 --> 01:49:40.670
you all have any or or have a broader discussion, Thank

01:49:40.670 --> 01:49:42.409
you for laying that out and like you said, the important

01:49:42.409 --> 01:49:44.659
part today is getting, making sure we get it laid out

01:49:44.659 --> 01:49:47.680
in the public domain and we make sure stakeholders

01:49:47.689 --> 01:49:50.119
are aware and can respond to the issues that we as

01:49:50.119 --> 01:49:54.760
a commission seem deem deem critical. Uh and I certainly

01:49:55.159 --> 01:49:57.739
I appreciate the merits of both on the six year and

01:49:57.750 --> 01:50:03.369
considering 10 years average and and uh time averaging

01:50:03.369 --> 01:50:07.270
across time rather than a single point of view. And

01:50:08.149 --> 01:50:11.289
And as part of that, I want to know how well years

01:50:11.289 --> 01:50:14.039
seven through 10 can be informed in terms of value

01:50:14.039 --> 01:50:17.890
on the cost of benefit, with if the planning model

01:50:17.890 --> 01:50:20.260
doesn't go out there. And that's that's a question

01:50:20.260 --> 01:50:23.989
for the respondents as we go through the next 30 days

01:50:24.000 --> 01:50:31.220
just for a clarification, what is the math on the current

01:50:31.229 --> 01:50:39.170
version of the test, one year, 1 year. So we build

01:50:40.390 --> 01:50:45.710
2022 we build six years, we have a case for 2023 24

01:50:45.710 --> 01:50:50.720
all the way up to 2028. So if the new project, this

01:50:50.720 --> 01:50:54.270
is just this is just a model of the system. So if

01:50:54.270 --> 01:50:58.149
the new project was, was to go and be in service in

01:50:58.159 --> 01:51:04.829
2027 We'd have the 2027 case and the 2028 case that

01:51:04.829 --> 01:51:08.619
we could calculate the production cost benefit, let's

01:51:08.619 --> 01:51:11.539
say it was, you know 20 million one year and 22, the

01:51:11.539 --> 01:51:15.229
other, we'd say the average of that is 21. And then

01:51:15.229 --> 01:51:18.170
we would look at the first year revenue requirement

01:51:18.180 --> 01:51:22.159
the first year cost to load of the transmission line

01:51:22.279 --> 01:51:28.770
and compare maybe it's 18 million And so it's less

01:51:28.770 --> 01:51:32.640
than the average of the two benefits and so it would

01:51:32.649 --> 01:51:35.529
be justified. That's the way it works. You count the

01:51:35.529 --> 01:51:38.829
average of however many years are left in your six-year

01:51:38.829 --> 01:51:42.399
playing. So if it was 2023 it would be five years of

01:51:42.399 --> 01:51:46.529
benefits averaged. Well the line were to go in place

01:51:46.529 --> 01:51:50.430
in 2027. We only have two cases that we could actually

01:51:50.430 --> 01:51:53.939
look at two models to look at because it wouldn't be

01:51:53.939 --> 01:51:57.350
in the 24 or 25 or 26 cases. Okay. I got you

01:51:58.260 --> 01:52:02.859
that cell phone. You do, you do mean not median. That's

01:52:02.859 --> 01:52:06.760
part of the problem with the tenure is you're projecting

01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:11.010
out what those benefits might be. And the biggest,

01:52:11.020 --> 01:52:15.930
the biggest problems with an economic study or um,

01:52:16.579 --> 01:52:19.819
used to It took five years to build a power plant in

01:52:19.829 --> 01:52:22.189
five years to build transmission line that kind of

01:52:22.189 --> 01:52:25.699
matched up. But with IRR generation being built

01:52:25.710 --> 01:52:29.300
or batteries being built in two years or Cryptocurrency

01:52:29.300 --> 01:52:36.479
miners three months or so. All those things handicap

01:52:36.479 --> 01:52:41.300
your, your economic studies, another big handicap is

01:52:41.300 --> 01:52:46.289
the gas price 50% of your power is coming from gas

01:52:46.289 --> 01:52:50.939
power generation. The price of gas dramatically changes

01:52:50.949 --> 01:52:54.449
what's economic and what's not. And so our ability

01:52:54.460 --> 01:52:59.699
to forecast what gas prices are, Two years, five years

01:52:59.710 --> 01:53:03.539
10 years out. I mean that's try to judge benefits 10

01:53:03.539 --> 01:53:07.020
years out and not have any kind of idea what the gas

01:53:07.020 --> 01:53:10.399
prices or have some, some idea. But that's, that's

01:53:10.399 --> 01:53:13.489
a big handicap when you're looking at. But on the other

01:53:13.489 --> 01:53:16.539
side of the equation, you know exactly what the power

01:53:16.539 --> 01:53:19.539
line is gonna cost. So you've got a lot of certainty

01:53:19.539 --> 01:53:22.060
on one side of the equation. On the other side of the

01:53:22.060 --> 01:53:26.750
equation, you've got, Are we gonna have 20,000 more

01:53:26.750 --> 01:53:29.270
megawatts of solar generation built and where will

01:53:29.270 --> 01:53:33.819
it be built and gas prices and how widely adopted will

01:53:33.819 --> 01:53:36.829
batteries be? There's a lot of, a lot of variables

01:53:36.840 --> 01:53:41.869
on the savings side. And I would say that, uh, woody

01:53:41.869 --> 01:53:44.500
is exactly right. And that what he's talking about

01:53:44.500 --> 01:53:48.869
is solely the cost benefit. Um, and that is only one

01:53:48.869 --> 01:53:51.520
part of the benefits that transmission provides to

01:53:51.520 --> 01:53:54.130
consumers. So at this point in time, that's the only

01:53:54.130 --> 01:53:57.069
piece, we're looking at other places around the country

01:53:57.069 --> 01:54:00.100
Spp my. So they look at a multi value approach, They

01:54:00.100 --> 01:54:03.810
look at what are the, there's a whole host of issues

01:54:03.810 --> 01:54:07.029
that they look at that we in our process as of today

01:54:07.029 --> 01:54:09.869
don't look at. So that's why I was trying to Push out

01:54:09.869 --> 01:54:14.710
10 years in spite of the fact that it's averaged, but

01:54:14.729 --> 01:54:18.680
to try to create a proxy in the meantime for some of

01:54:18.680 --> 01:54:20.979
those other benefits that we don't even have a value

01:54:20.979 --> 01:54:23.699
test for sure. And I think that's an important thing

01:54:23.699 --> 01:54:26.439
we've heard in the past about how cumbersome and burdensome

01:54:26.439 --> 01:54:30.020
other transmission planning and you highlighted how

01:54:30.329 --> 01:54:34.699
the speed of our transmission existing transmission

01:54:34.699 --> 01:54:38.069
planning process has been a blessing to our ecosystem

01:54:38.069 --> 01:54:40.600
and our consumers. And so another thing I think it's

01:54:40.609 --> 01:54:43.520
important to hear from all our stakeholders is going

01:54:43.520 --> 01:54:45.720
forward. How do we strike to maintain that balance

01:54:45.729 --> 01:54:48.800
More comprehensive, look ahead. A longer look ahead

01:54:48.810 --> 01:54:52.260
where six years, 10 years somewhere in between without

01:54:52.270 --> 01:54:57.159
capturing the burdens of the bureaucracy of the so

01:54:57.409 --> 01:55:00.920
that not being handicapped by paralysis by analysis

01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:03.149
So that's, that's the question to the stakeholders

01:55:03.529 --> 01:55:07.149
all worthy of consideration. So, so let me say with

01:55:07.159 --> 01:55:10.899
with my 10 year test, um listen, I'm, I'm agnostic

01:55:10.899 --> 01:55:13.439
as to whether that goes in the rule, I would like either

01:55:13.439 --> 01:55:17.170
10 or six to go in there. Um, I think the stakeholders

01:55:17.170 --> 01:55:20.539
need to have a discussion about that. Um, if ERCOT

01:55:20.539 --> 01:55:23.609
feels strongly that it's six um um, you know, happy

01:55:23.609 --> 01:55:26.750
to go with Commissioner Cobos proposal, but I think

01:55:26.750 --> 01:55:27.850
what you're gonna see

01:55:29.529 --> 01:55:32.960
is that over time, you're gonna see huge, much greater

01:55:32.960 --> 01:55:37.569
value if you're looking at a, at a broader test over

01:55:37.569 --> 01:55:40.069
a longer time period because again, these transmission

01:55:40.069 --> 01:55:43.460
lines do not get taken out of service. They do not

01:55:43.460 --> 01:55:48.470
go away. Our system continually hits the the edge um

01:55:48.479 --> 01:55:54.779
of uh, of its capacity And um, we are, we are really

01:55:54.779 --> 01:55:58.039
whether it's a six year test or a 10 year test, we're

01:55:58.039 --> 01:56:01.899
just taking a snapshot. Yeah, absolutely. And no matter

01:56:01.909 --> 01:56:04.619
who you are, what you're trying to predict, forecasts

01:56:04.619 --> 01:56:07.069
and projections are difficult. There's always uncertainty

01:56:07.079 --> 01:56:09.569
Uh, I mean the smartest people in the world with the

01:56:09.569 --> 01:56:11.250
most in the world can't tell you what the stock market's

01:56:11.250 --> 01:56:13.880
gonna do tomorrow. So it's just, it's very difficult

01:56:13.880 --> 01:56:15.800
no matter where you are. But we've got to pick some

01:56:15.800 --> 01:56:19.329
metrics and some formula, uh, to move it forward. And

01:56:19.340 --> 01:56:22.390
before one other thought is is I know you, you mentioned

01:56:22.390 --> 01:56:25.720
we don't, we always need more transmission, uh, in

01:56:25.720 --> 01:56:27.439
a growing states like this. But as part of this, I

01:56:27.439 --> 01:56:31.300
also want to make sure we keep in mind the possibility

01:56:31.300 --> 01:56:34.539
of utilizing as much of existing right away as possible

01:56:34.539 --> 01:56:37.979
Trying uh, I mean transmission and reliability and

01:56:37.979 --> 01:56:40.130
resilience are hugely important, but it takes land

01:56:40.130 --> 01:56:42.729
it takes easements, it takes in the domain. So I think

01:56:42.739 --> 01:56:46.250
it's, I think it's safe to say all of us would encourage

01:56:46.840 --> 01:56:49.550
anything that ensures maximizing existing right of

01:56:49.550 --> 01:56:53.000
ways as we. And to be thoughtful, we'll be thoughtful

01:56:53.000 --> 01:56:56.760
about that movie. I echo that two points that I just

01:56:56.770 --> 01:56:59.829
you know, like to say on that is that's why I have

01:56:59.840 --> 01:57:02.260
tried to promote being good stewards of our rights

01:57:02.260 --> 01:57:04.609
away, higher capacity lines. I think what Commissioner

01:57:04.609 --> 01:57:08.350
Cobos did in leading our effort to string a, the second

01:57:08.350 --> 01:57:10.949
circuit in the Rio grande valley, that was an example

01:57:10.949 --> 01:57:13.149
of that. And those are the things that we have to be

01:57:13.149 --> 01:57:15.319
doing. Those are the things that we should be calling

01:57:15.319 --> 01:57:18.199
on ERCOT can't do it every time. But we at least need

01:57:18.199 --> 01:57:20.710
to have the data and the understanding of the effects

01:57:20.720 --> 01:57:23.569
So the more information we get into this process, the

01:57:23.569 --> 01:57:27.250
better decisions we can. That's right. And and then

01:57:27.250 --> 01:57:30.659
the other thing is, as I said, the more of these lines

01:57:30.659 --> 01:57:35.579
that are proposed, we get a better understanding of

01:57:35.579 --> 01:57:38.449
where generation might be cited as well, whether it

01:57:38.449 --> 01:57:41.340
be at a lower voltage or a higher voltage that is part

01:57:41.350 --> 01:57:45.329
of an LMP market is sending price signals and that's

01:57:45.329 --> 01:57:49.050
the benefit. A constrained system doesn't send the

01:57:49.369 --> 01:57:52.670
all of the right price signals. It does in fact send

01:57:52.680 --> 01:57:56.029
some right price signals. And just understanding that

01:57:56.029 --> 01:57:58.600
is is a good metric in our, in our market we should

01:57:58.609 --> 01:58:03.930
act upon. That may I am absolutely provides some clarifications

01:58:03.930 --> 01:58:08.489
and questions. I guess what the consumer congestion

01:58:08.489 --> 01:58:11.970
cost savings, test, what do you, this was gonna be

01:58:11.970 --> 01:58:14.890
part of my question to you in terms of your modeling

01:58:14.890 --> 01:58:18.970
you look out six years with certainty. Um, what I'm

01:58:18.970 --> 01:58:21.609
talking about is the transmission revenue requirement

01:58:21.619 --> 01:58:24.789
as you've stated is more certain because you know,

01:58:24.789 --> 01:58:31.369
the cost of the transmission asset. And so I'm I'm

01:58:31.369 --> 01:58:34.319
happy to hear from the, from the stakeholders on on

01:58:34.319 --> 01:58:37.239
what they think on, you know, looking out, you know

01:58:37.250 --> 01:58:40.420
10 years on the congestion, cost savings and, and on

01:58:40.420 --> 01:58:43.760
my question, six years based on how far you look out

01:58:43.770 --> 01:58:46.229
on the transmission revenue requirement, I will say

01:58:46.229 --> 01:58:47.880
that, you know, in reading through all the stakeholder

01:58:47.880 --> 01:58:49.960
comments that they've already addressed this issue

01:58:49.970 --> 01:58:52.529
I think a lot of them have filed comments saying that

01:58:52.539 --> 01:58:55.850
they believe that after six years it becomes uncertain

01:58:56.210 --> 01:58:59.520
um at least the stakeholders that are representing

01:58:59.520 --> 01:59:02.279
consumer interests have stated that once you look out

01:59:02.289 --> 01:59:06.609
past six years that it becomes uncertain and and then

01:59:06.609 --> 01:59:10.270
it's the balance between, you know, or or the issue

01:59:10.270 --> 01:59:13.109
of cost right and responsibility to model that far

01:59:13.119 --> 01:59:16.560
out um with respect to your, your comments, commissioner

01:59:16.560 --> 01:59:19.310
Glotfelty another market, the multi value process and

01:59:19.310 --> 01:59:21.470
all that, those are I think items that we can look

01:59:21.470 --> 01:59:26.289
at in phase two of, of um potential transmission planning

01:59:26.300 --> 01:59:30.539
processes in in ERCOT Um, I know that other markets

01:59:30.550 --> 01:59:34.750
do look out further um, and are still struggling to

01:59:34.750 --> 01:59:37.090
get transmission built and there's a lot going on in

01:59:37.090 --> 01:59:40.050
those other markets, but I did want to clarify at least

01:59:40.050 --> 01:59:43.930
with my proposal on this test, it's the transmission

01:59:43.930 --> 01:59:47.539
revenue requirement, uh not the congestion cost savings

01:59:47.539 --> 01:59:52.920
test and so, um with respect to um resiliency,

01:59:54.500 --> 01:59:56.619
A few things. 1 1 I

01:59:58.250 --> 02:00:01.010
the reason that I'm sort of wanting to have this broader

02:00:01.010 --> 02:00:03.140
discussion and until you address your point and I think

02:00:03.140 --> 02:00:06.189
you agreed, we don't have a definition of resiliency

02:00:06.189 --> 02:00:11.109
in our role right now. Um ERCOT is already looking

02:00:11.109 --> 02:00:14.029
at resiliency in their planning process through the

02:00:14.029 --> 02:00:17.159
Rio grande Valley transmission infrastructure process

02:00:17.159 --> 02:00:21.720
that we went through. Um ERCOT noted that the Rio grande

02:00:21.729 --> 02:00:24.659
transmission infrastructure that we ordered and approved

02:00:24.659 --> 02:00:28.810
as deemed critical for reliability um included resiliency

02:00:28.810 --> 02:00:31.750
benefits. So it's not like it doesn't exist in your

02:00:31.760 --> 02:00:34.989
in your lens of looking at proposed transmission projects

02:00:35.000 --> 02:00:39.010
at this time. It's just there's not a definitive um

02:00:39.020 --> 02:00:43.000
you know, I guess spelled out in commission rule protocol

02:00:43.010 --> 02:00:47.100
set of criteria that um we have out there right now

02:00:47.100 --> 02:00:50.020
but but I do want to clarify that, ERCOT looks at resiliency

02:00:50.029 --> 02:00:53.710
right now. Um the other thing that I wanted to note

02:00:53.710 --> 02:00:56.729
is that, you know, I I, you know, mr, Glotfelty you

02:00:56.729 --> 02:01:00.180
know, it, I don't think it's shortsighted because we're

02:01:00.180 --> 02:01:03.069
not gonna get any transmission projects built by next

02:01:03.069 --> 02:01:07.470
winter, um you know, it takes 56 years to build transmission

02:01:07.470 --> 02:01:10.529
So I think the in my opinion, if we wanted to strike

02:01:10.529 --> 02:01:13.720
a balance in terms of, you know, not getting ahead

02:01:13.720 --> 02:01:16.439
of ourselves and putting criteria out there right now

02:01:16.439 --> 02:01:19.460
that we could get comment on it. Ultimately we can

02:01:19.470 --> 02:01:22.189
make the decision later and for the proposal for adoption

02:01:22.189 --> 02:01:25.359
on whether we include that interim path, uh you know

02:01:25.369 --> 02:01:28.989
ERCOT spread reliability assessment um is taken in

02:01:28.989 --> 02:01:32.220
consideration reliability and extreme weather conditions

02:01:32.229 --> 02:01:35.750
and so that could maybe provide a path is I think what

02:01:35.750 --> 02:01:39.170
he um we have had discussions on how ERCOT would conduct

02:01:39.170 --> 02:01:41.210
that study and perhaps shedding a little bit of light

02:01:41.210 --> 02:01:45.380
on that would be helpful. Yeah. So if we did a biennial

02:01:45.390 --> 02:01:48.779
resiliency test, we, I would like to see it done the

02:01:48.779 --> 02:01:50.869
year. We don't do the long term system assessment,

02:01:50.869 --> 02:01:53.109
which is also a biennial. So every other year you do

02:01:53.109 --> 02:01:56.569
one or the other and we already do studies, we have

02:01:56.569 --> 02:01:59.909
a stability analysis study every year that's identified

02:01:59.920 --> 02:02:02.949
uh right aways that if you were to lose this right

02:02:02.949 --> 02:02:05.050
away you would have stability. So we're already doing

02:02:05.050 --> 02:02:07.260
like you said some of that kind of stuff, but this

02:02:07.260 --> 02:02:11.500
would be a way to step back, look at the entire system

02:02:11.510 --> 02:02:16.800
look at the ability of the system to stay, to continue

02:02:16.800 --> 02:02:19.800
to serve Load even if we had some large outages that

02:02:19.800 --> 02:02:23.729
lasted for a long time. I think that's kind of my unofficial

02:02:23.729 --> 02:02:26.789
definition of what resiliency is, is the ability to

02:02:26.789 --> 02:02:30.670
continue to serve Load even with outages that last

02:02:30.670 --> 02:02:32.850
a long time because right now in a planning study we're

02:02:32.850 --> 02:02:35.289
not doing anything but in minus one we don't do in

02:02:35.289 --> 02:02:38.470
minus one minus one. We don't take a piece of the system

02:02:38.470 --> 02:02:41.960
out and do in minus one. It's all base case. That's

02:02:41.960 --> 02:02:45.760
that's a big direction we need to move and well I certainly

02:02:45.770 --> 02:02:47.880
certainly appreciate that we've received comments on

02:02:47.880 --> 02:02:49.640
a lot of these issues. But I think the most important

02:02:49.640 --> 02:02:54.579
part of the day is is putting a finer point on future

02:02:54.579 --> 02:02:57.949
comments on the issues we want to hear, evaluated and

02:02:57.960 --> 02:03:01.380
and give stakeholders a more clear direction on what

02:03:01.380 --> 02:03:03.180
we want to hear about, like you did in both of your

02:03:03.180 --> 02:03:09.140
memos, and while we do have some resiliency uh take

02:03:09.140 --> 02:03:12.260
into an account now, I very much think that we need

02:03:12.260 --> 02:03:16.670
a more comprehensive look at what that means. And uh

02:03:16.680 --> 02:03:19.510
and and so I certainly appreciate Commissioner Glotfelty

02:03:19.520 --> 02:03:22.560
highlighted the need for that to be a comprehensive

02:03:22.560 --> 02:03:26.899
look of in the future. And while we're we do have a

02:03:26.899 --> 02:03:31.119
new line in south texas, uh remind all of our stakeholders

02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:33.510
that if it was not for your leadership on pushing that

02:03:33.510 --> 02:03:36.590
forward, uh when we if you remember sitting at our

02:03:36.590 --> 02:03:39.649
old diets, I guess we heard as a commission about why

02:03:39.649 --> 02:03:42.979
it wasn't a good idea, why it wasn't possible and if

02:03:42.979 --> 02:03:45.859
you hadn't forged ahead on that, I guarantee you that

02:03:45.859 --> 02:03:49.989
line would not be underway today. So um we don't want

02:03:49.989 --> 02:03:52.930
you to have to do that every time Mr co host. Uh

02:03:52.939 --> 02:03:56.100
so we can certainly get a more comprehensive approach

02:03:56.159 --> 02:03:59.170
and a more formalized approach to resiliency, but that's

02:03:59.170 --> 02:04:01.640
that's certainly down the road, like it's as contemplated

02:04:01.640 --> 02:04:03.590
and that's something else. It would be good to hear

02:04:03.590 --> 02:04:06.550
from stakeholders about what's the best way to do that

02:04:06.550 --> 02:04:10.460
analysis, Who's the best a party to do that analysis

02:04:10.500 --> 02:04:12.479
So look forward to hearing their thoughts on that.

02:04:12.489 --> 02:04:15.510
Mr Chairman on that, I'd like to remind everybody.

02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:19.800
Um and I was the one who opened the door on this

02:04:19.800 --> 02:04:22.689
and when you open doors in this place, things walk

02:04:22.689 --> 02:04:27.289
in and resilience. The resiliency definition was a

02:04:27.289 --> 02:04:30.789
part of that. And uh again, I wanna remind everybody

02:04:30.789 --> 02:04:34.729
how this process looks like today. Um when you have

02:04:34.729 --> 02:04:38.760
waiting systems in our transmission planning process

02:04:38.770 --> 02:04:43.939
um industry participants, stakeholders, uh interest

02:04:43.939 --> 02:04:49.180
groups, use those waiting systems to petition this

02:04:49.180 --> 02:04:52.899
agency. There were building a gate here upon which

02:04:52.909 --> 02:04:58.619
uh projects will come through for um ERCOT to consider

02:04:58.630 --> 02:05:00.729
and they're the gatekeeper, but ultimately we're standing

02:05:00.729 --> 02:05:02.479
behind the gatekeeper, and they're always looking over

02:05:02.479 --> 02:05:06.109
at us like this, okay. You know, when they move forward

02:05:06.109 --> 02:05:11.010
on a multibillion dollar project. And so the a nebulous

02:05:11.010 --> 02:05:14.119
definition at this point, sorry,

02:05:16.170 --> 02:05:20.250
could have the effect of creating a pathway to this

02:05:20.250 --> 02:05:23.640
commission for everybody to come in and say, hey, look

02:05:23.640 --> 02:05:26.460
this, this was in the study on resiliency, even though

02:05:26.460 --> 02:05:29.869
it's not fully baked, but it it's an awaiting system

02:05:29.880 --> 02:05:33.649
and we're gonna be getting legislators sending in rafts

02:05:33.649 --> 02:05:36.159
of letters saying, no, we have to do this under law

02:05:36.159 --> 02:05:38.739
you shall do this, and we're gonna be built, and we're

02:05:38.739 --> 02:05:42.369
building roads here of power and you don't want to

02:05:42.369 --> 02:05:45.340
build a bridge to nowhere and I understand the concept

02:05:45.340 --> 02:05:47.810
of if you build it, they will come and they sure will

02:05:47.819 --> 02:05:52.619
But you have to have enough visibility based on real

02:05:52.619 --> 02:05:56.930
data um that you're averaging in your models to determine

02:05:56.939 --> 02:06:01.310
the likelihood that Load will be present that needs

02:06:01.310 --> 02:06:04.569
and will benefit from the generation that we know is

02:06:04.569 --> 02:06:08.069
somewhere in the area that will come in. Um, chris

02:06:08.069 --> 02:06:12.649
was a fascinating um, Has a fascinating history. It

02:06:12.649 --> 02:06:17.760
went live in 2014 and it exceeded its capacity in five

02:06:17.760 --> 02:06:23.430
years just about um and and so nobody knew that it

02:06:23.430 --> 02:06:26.260
would blow past that mark that fast. I know you guys

02:06:26.260 --> 02:06:30.060
weren't forecasting that in your models so it it helps

02:06:30.060 --> 02:06:33.720
to have enough near term visibility to reinforce those

02:06:33.720 --> 02:06:38.199
data points that you're using in your models um to

02:06:38.199 --> 02:06:42.350
help us make sound decisions but ultimately we want

02:06:42.350 --> 02:06:46.810
enough certainty and and good methodologies built into

02:06:46.810 --> 02:06:49.720
the evaluation process on the front end so that we

02:06:49.720 --> 02:06:54.119
aren't inundated in the pressure to just automatically

02:06:54.119 --> 02:06:56.680
approve something because it will certainly be there

02:06:57.119 --> 02:07:00.739
Get more in terms of resiliency until we get the more

02:07:00.739 --> 02:07:03.819
comprehensive formulaic version of it. It's incumbent

02:07:03.819 --> 02:07:06.600
on this commission to make those tough decisions because

02:07:06.600 --> 02:07:09.720
we're certainly not going to just have a rubber stamp

02:07:12.090 --> 02:07:14.739
and that is my concern honestly with having that interim

02:07:14.739 --> 02:07:17.729
language in the rule is that we would be opening the

02:07:17.729 --> 02:07:20.130
door to the concerns that Commissioner Mcadams just

02:07:20.140 --> 02:07:23.710
highlighted I, Commissioner Glotfelty and I are absolutely

02:07:23.710 --> 02:07:26.489
on the same page with respect as I laid out in my

02:07:26.489 --> 02:07:31.050
own memo, um that we should have a comprehensive review

02:07:31.050 --> 02:07:34.630
of resiliency in a separate project after the implementation

02:07:34.630 --> 02:07:37.149
of 12 81. I think many of the stakeholders themselves

02:07:37.149 --> 02:07:40.149
even the utilities that would be benefiting from building

02:07:40.149 --> 02:07:43.210
infrastructure for resiliency stated that they would

02:07:43.210 --> 02:07:45.489
rather have the conversation in a separate project

02:07:45.880 --> 02:07:51.579
Um, my um I think that that's the Commissioner Mcadams

02:07:51.579 --> 02:07:54.729
highlighted those those are that gray area of the interim

02:07:54.729 --> 02:07:58.149
language we have in there is what I believe it causes

02:07:58.149 --> 02:08:00.779
me a little bit of concern that we sort of set set

02:08:00.779 --> 02:08:04.319
ourselves down a path where um we opened the door and

02:08:04.319 --> 02:08:07.640
we ultimately adopt that language um to the to the

02:08:07.640 --> 02:08:11.369
concerns that Commissioner Mcadams highlighted. Absolutely

02:08:11.380 --> 02:08:14.729
resiliency needs to look be looked at, as I've stated

02:08:14.729 --> 02:08:17.600
I think there's a lot of moving pieces with resiliency

02:08:17.840 --> 02:08:21.340
Um it's not only hard in the system, but we have weatherization

02:08:21.340 --> 02:08:25.920
on the on the transmission um uh system that that we're

02:08:25.920 --> 02:08:28.060
implementing weatherization preparation, standards

02:08:28.060 --> 02:08:32.470
Emergency operations plans. Uh there is language in

02:08:32.479 --> 02:08:36.930
hb 25 41 that discusses, you know, transformers for

02:08:36.930 --> 02:08:41.210
T D U. S. There's a lot of um policy areas that

02:08:41.210 --> 02:08:44.569
we're looking at in different um different projects

02:08:44.579 --> 02:08:48.140
that tie into this resiliency effort that I think ultimately

02:08:48.140 --> 02:08:52.810
we need to sort of rain in and focus on. Um, but

02:08:52.810 --> 02:08:55.100
my concern and and that's what I wanted to have this

02:08:55.100 --> 02:08:58.869
broader conversation was about was to lay out um sort

02:08:58.869 --> 02:09:02.050
of what we were thinking in terms of continuing to

02:09:02.050 --> 02:09:04.930
include the interim language in there. And that's a

02:09:04.930 --> 02:09:08.319
good now, that's a good point for stakeholders to address

02:09:08.319 --> 02:09:11.090
with more clarity, um, how to try and find that right

02:09:11.090 --> 02:09:15.289
balance between uh broad enough definition to consider

02:09:15.289 --> 02:09:18.350
resiliency without a rubber stamp where everything

02:09:18.350 --> 02:09:20.609
gets done and well, I'm sure there will be no shortage

02:09:20.609 --> 02:09:24.079
of opinions on that. And this is a discussion

02:09:26.020 --> 02:09:29.319
and let me just say, I may be a little different. I

02:09:29.319 --> 02:09:33.060
want to open the door. I want to open the door to

02:09:33.060 --> 02:09:35.760
the discussion of every element of transmission that

02:09:35.760 --> 02:09:41.199
needs to be considered utilizing controllable technologies

02:09:41.199 --> 02:09:45.600
use utilizing all of these things. It can be that it

02:09:45.600 --> 02:09:47.909
can be facts, devices that can be other things that

02:09:47.909 --> 02:09:51.670
we use to control the, that we could use to control

02:09:51.680 --> 02:09:55.079
the existing system. These are technologies that have

02:09:55.079 --> 02:09:57.079
been out there for many, many years and we just don't

02:09:57.090 --> 02:10:00.760
implement them here very well. Many, many of them have

02:10:00.760 --> 02:10:03.909
applications here. Many of them don't. But um, that's

02:10:03.909 --> 02:10:07.739
why I want to open the door so that these ideas and

02:10:07.739 --> 02:10:10.399
these thoughts come about as there's more than one

02:10:10.399 --> 02:10:14.100
way to solve a transmission constrained. It's not just

02:10:14.100 --> 02:10:18.270
a transmission line and having the understanding of

02:10:18.270 --> 02:10:20.479
where these constraints are and why they're there and

02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:25.390
such, um, will help us. I think resiliency is, I mean

02:10:25.390 --> 02:10:28.619
I when I was in the transmission development space

02:10:28.630 --> 02:10:32.760
um, when when I would hear folks say, well, we'll take

02:10:32.760 --> 02:10:36.149
care of that next year. You know, it was like, God

02:10:36.149 --> 02:10:39.779
there goes another year, there goes another year, and

02:10:39.789 --> 02:10:42.680
we have done a lot this year. And, and I don't say

02:10:42.680 --> 02:10:44.649
that lightly, and I don't say that we're not building

02:10:44.649 --> 02:10:47.789
transmission here because we are. But, um, some of

02:10:47.789 --> 02:10:50.949
these things are ones, you know, that we I believe

02:10:50.949 --> 02:10:53.550
that we ought to have in there. We ought to go forth

02:10:53.560 --> 02:10:57.470
again, it's a proposed rule uh, rule for publication

02:10:57.479 --> 02:10:59.609
We're gonna get comments on it. We can always take

02:10:59.609 --> 02:11:02.380
it out later, but I urge you all to keep it in

02:11:02.380 --> 02:11:05.890
there and and we'll make a final decision on the final

02:11:05.890 --> 02:11:06.960
rule

02:11:09.960 --> 02:11:13.279
if I could be helpful. I think that the there's a lot

02:11:13.289 --> 02:11:15.170
that's going on in the discussion, but it seems like

02:11:15.170 --> 02:11:17.979
there are three choices that you can make today with

02:11:17.979 --> 02:11:20.550
regard to this part. Right? So, the first one is we

02:11:20.550 --> 02:11:23.340
leave all the resiliency stuff in, right, exactly as

02:11:23.340 --> 02:11:26.119
it's drafted. And to some of the concerns that have

02:11:26.119 --> 02:11:29.000
been expressed. This was drafted deliberately not to

02:11:29.000 --> 02:11:31.289
include a definition of resiliency because all the

02:11:31.289 --> 02:11:33.439
stakeholders agreed that was too big of a question

02:11:33.439 --> 02:11:33.750
It was

02:11:40.100 --> 02:11:43.310
right. So, it was directed to sort of point at what

02:11:43.319 --> 02:11:45.909
regardless of all the ways to achieve resilience? He

02:11:45.909 --> 02:11:48.810
was pointed at sort of the aim, which is to help people

02:11:48.810 --> 02:11:51.729
get power back on after storms and things. And resilience

02:11:51.729 --> 02:11:54.119
is a really broad definition. So it was it tried to

02:11:54.119 --> 02:11:56.319
incorporate the You've got to prove that this is the

02:11:56.319 --> 02:11:58.590
best solution. So if you can do it, if you can do

02:11:58.590 --> 02:12:01.899
it with batteries or whatever else, hardening, do that

02:12:01.899 --> 02:12:05.329
instead. So so option a. Is do that and we can we

02:12:05.329 --> 02:12:07.369
can take it out later if you want. And my commitment

02:12:07.369 --> 02:12:11.350
to you is we I will not let this slow down 1281

02:12:11.350 --> 02:12:15.029
implementation. Um if that happens, we'll cut corners

02:12:15.029 --> 02:12:17.310
on summarizing comments or we will tell you we need

02:12:17.310 --> 02:12:21.029
to take it out the messages received 1281 implementation

02:12:21.029 --> 02:12:23.300
is top priority. So if you choose to keep it in, we'll

02:12:23.300 --> 02:12:27.050
make it work. The second choice choice B is. If you

02:12:27.050 --> 02:12:30.579
want to start gathering the information on what the

02:12:30.579 --> 02:12:34.460
resiliency problems are, we could take out the resiliency

02:12:34.470 --> 02:12:37.289
mechanism but leave in the new language and the grid

02:12:37.289 --> 02:12:40.460
resiliency report that tells ERCOT to start identifying

02:12:40.460 --> 02:12:43.569
grid resiliency problems. That's option B And again

02:12:43.579 --> 02:12:45.619
this proposal. So we could go with it or not. And then

02:12:45.619 --> 02:12:48.479
option C is which I don't get the sense of where everyone

02:12:48.479 --> 02:12:50.770
is right now, let's get rid of all of it. So the

02:12:50.770 --> 02:12:54.180
direction staff needs to get this rule published for

02:12:54.180 --> 02:12:57.430
this. Is are we interested in option A where we leave

02:12:57.430 --> 02:13:00.640
everything in or we interested option B, option A and

02:13:00.640 --> 02:13:03.130
B. And we don't have to decide today, so we can, yeah

02:13:03.130 --> 02:13:05.430
I just need to know what to write into what to publish

02:13:05.439 --> 02:13:07.260
So I think

02:13:11.970 --> 02:13:15.680
we'll leave it as is and then with the contemplation

02:13:15.680 --> 02:13:19.409
of option in the future, option A and B in the future

02:13:19.420 --> 02:13:21.270
that makes sense. So I think that

02:13:24.220 --> 02:13:28.229
option it is and um stakeholders, I know there's not

02:13:28.229 --> 02:13:30.729
a definition of resilience in here and we were not

02:13:30.739 --> 02:13:34.199
going to be adopting a full definition of resiliency

02:13:34.199 --> 02:13:37.510
So uh it'd be nice if they held their fire on some

02:13:37.510 --> 02:13:40.020
of those points, but whether or not we need one is

02:13:40.029 --> 02:13:43.159
is a valid is obviously valid comment that can be making

02:13:43.170 --> 02:13:47.449
Yeah. And I would say um obviously if, if we want to

02:13:47.449 --> 02:13:50.909
go with a six year level eyes cost, I'm happy to do

02:13:50.909 --> 02:13:55.930
that. You know? Again, this is just a we can have the

02:13:55.939 --> 02:13:58.939
stakeholders give us a comment and I'm happy to go

02:13:58.939 --> 02:14:03.380
with commissioner proposal on that. So, if I can be

02:14:03.380 --> 02:14:06.590
on that point, I just want to be clear that there are

02:14:06.590 --> 02:14:09.399
two sides to the equation right? There's the how we

02:14:09.399 --> 02:14:12.350
measure cost and how we measure benefit and as I understand

02:14:12.350 --> 02:14:17.020
it under the under the proposal, it was one year versus

02:14:17.029 --> 02:14:20.210
level Ized and by level Ized for folks that are reading

02:14:20.210 --> 02:14:22.649
it, we didn't specify timeframe. So that just means

02:14:22.659 --> 02:14:25.479
multiple year. We, we leave it to market to decide

02:14:25.489 --> 02:14:28.739
right that was the proposal. What I understand commissioner

02:14:28.739 --> 02:14:31.930
Glotfelty memo to be, you wanted 10 years on each side

02:14:32.279 --> 02:14:35.569
What I understood commissioner kobus is to be, we want

02:14:35.569 --> 02:14:39.069
six years for the cost leave, just level Ized or cut

02:14:39.079 --> 02:14:42.399
to decide on the benefit. So that, that's what I think

02:14:42.399 --> 02:14:45.090
is on. But you're also, what you're also hearing is

02:14:45.100 --> 02:14:48.409
it depends on the contemplated time of construction

02:14:48.420 --> 02:14:52.180
and then whatever six minus that year is. That's how

02:14:52.180 --> 02:14:54.319
many years you level is or how many cases there are

02:14:54.319 --> 02:14:57.090
between now and six years from now and I may have,

02:14:57.090 --> 02:14:59.420
I may have briefed that aspect of it slightly wrong

02:14:59.420 --> 02:15:00.020
and I apologize,

02:15:01.720 --> 02:15:08.479
let me maybe. So the best way to do it this is

02:15:08.479 --> 02:15:09.260
what we've been looking at

02:15:11.090 --> 02:15:15.680
Is if, if you pay for a transmission line over 30 years

02:15:15.689 --> 02:15:20.109
look at 30 years of cost and then look at 30 years

02:15:20.109 --> 02:15:24.840
of benefit, add them all up. Is it, is it worth doing

02:15:24.840 --> 02:15:27.149
or not? I mean that would be the best way. Unfortunately

02:15:27.159 --> 02:15:32.680
we can't predict the savings over 30 years. The best

02:15:32.680 --> 02:15:34.939
we can do right now, depending on when the project

02:15:34.939 --> 02:15:37.840
comes in is we can run models that give us one or

02:15:37.840 --> 02:15:43.859
two years. So what we do is we average those, we say

02:15:43.859 --> 02:15:47.460
on average, we get this much savings and then what

02:15:47.460 --> 02:15:49.550
you guys are talking about is what we've done in the

02:15:49.550 --> 02:15:53.640
past. We've looked at the first year revenue requirement

02:15:53.649 --> 02:15:56.979
and compared it against that average, but we could

02:15:56.989 --> 02:16:01.449
look at an average Revenue requirement over six years

02:16:01.449 --> 02:16:05.300
or an average requirement over 10 years. And so the

02:16:05.300 --> 02:16:09.789
more you average in the lower the revenue requirement

02:16:09.789 --> 02:16:12.470
is, and the more projects you're gonna, we're gonna

02:16:12.479 --> 02:16:16.420
pass the pass through the door. So that's, that's how

02:16:16.420 --> 02:16:19.970
we're doing this today is we're pretty limited on the

02:16:19.979 --> 02:16:22.590
production cost side because we just don't have the

02:16:23.100 --> 02:16:25.920
data, you have to extrapolate that out into the future

02:16:25.920 --> 02:16:28.859
in order to get a good idea of what you get an

02:16:28.859 --> 02:16:32.100
idea. So those first two years that we do our, we've

02:16:32.100 --> 02:16:35.860
got data behind those, but after that we don't Yeah

02:16:35.870 --> 02:16:39.290
And that's something that I hope to hear from commenters

02:16:39.290 --> 02:16:42.120
on about, what are the pros and cons side by side and

02:16:42.120 --> 02:16:47.770
we'll work with with ERCOT team to get some more clarification

02:16:47.770 --> 02:16:52.409
on A versus B versus C. Yeah. And I just would say

02:16:52.420 --> 02:16:55.559
um, that that is only looking at one type of benefit

02:16:55.559 --> 02:16:58.700
of transmission and that would be the cost benefit

02:16:58.799 --> 02:17:04.430
That doesn't have to do with the, a lot of other areas

02:17:04.430 --> 02:17:07.159
in which these other regions of the country in the

02:17:07.159 --> 02:17:10.149
world are looking at where it might have an emissions

02:17:10.149 --> 02:17:13.540
impact. It might have a cycling impact on, on natural

02:17:13.540 --> 02:17:16.829
gas generators that might have values in other parts

02:17:16.829 --> 02:17:20.209
of this industry that are not being accounted for?

02:17:20.209 --> 02:17:23.079
We're just looking at one piece point A to point B

02:17:23.090 --> 02:17:25.750
and I think woody is right, you know, as you depreciate

02:17:25.750 --> 02:17:28.649
these, I think what a lot of people have found or many

02:17:28.649 --> 02:17:32.750
studies have said is that as these values go down,

02:17:32.920 --> 02:17:36.940
the revenue costs go down um at the further you go

02:17:36.940 --> 02:17:40.090
out as these facilities get appreciated, the benefits

02:17:40.090 --> 02:17:45.190
go up. So um again, I I throw that out there, you

02:17:45.190 --> 02:17:48.590
know, that's something you know, for the industry,

02:17:48.590 --> 02:17:52.639
keep showing us the their views and their studies and

02:17:52.649 --> 02:17:55.569
more case scenario analysis and more case studies would

02:17:55.579 --> 02:17:59.149
be helpful from all commenters. Alright, we've got

02:17:59.149 --> 02:18:02.979
a PFP anything else from us? Mr Spencer, I don't know

02:18:02.979 --> 02:18:06.370
where we landed. And so so so so for for each of

02:18:06.370 --> 02:18:10.430
these two things, do we want 16, 10 or just the word

02:18:10.430 --> 02:18:13.399
level eyes? So for the cost for the revenue requirement

02:18:13.409 --> 02:18:15.299
I don't know that we need to change what we're going

02:18:15.299 --> 02:18:18.120
to. Okay, we're gonna we're gonna leave it as published

02:18:18.129 --> 02:18:22.799
and given direction and providing a tighter range of

02:18:22.799 --> 02:18:25.100
conversation for our commenters. We don't need to change

02:18:25.100 --> 02:18:26.680
anything. I don't think we need to change anything

02:18:27.250 --> 02:18:30.569
So I guess my question is um what are we doing with

02:18:30.569 --> 02:18:33.739
that? 10, 6 year, is it a question for comment or is

02:18:33.739 --> 02:18:37.170
it? So let's take 10 off the table. So let's just talk

02:18:37.170 --> 02:18:40.329
Is it one year or six year. Okay, I withdraw that piece

02:18:40.329 --> 02:18:42.489
of my memo. So is it six year on both sides of

02:18:42.489 --> 02:18:45.200
the equation or not? So so we, regardless of what we

02:18:45.200 --> 02:18:47.659
put in this, we will have full flexibility on adoption

02:18:47.659 --> 02:18:49.840
So it's just what we want them. So the chairman is

02:18:49.840 --> 02:18:51.920
right. We could leave everything as is and still have

02:18:51.920 --> 02:18:55.040
all of the options available to us. Should you so choose

02:18:55.920 --> 02:18:58.290
likewise. I think we can we can put this out there

02:18:58.290 --> 02:19:02.329
with this discussion has provided fertile ground for

02:19:02.329 --> 02:19:05.340
comments from all our stakeholders and I'm sure we'll

02:19:05.360 --> 02:19:08.500
we'll hear from them and we can process in the meantime

02:19:08.500 --> 02:19:11.149
we'll work with continued work with ERCOT staff to

02:19:11.420 --> 02:19:14.870
get up sharpen our pencils and put a finer point on

02:19:15.610 --> 02:19:18.959
case studies studies, scenario analysis and we can

02:19:19.540 --> 02:19:22.989
move forward the process. My only outstanding question

02:19:22.989 --> 02:19:24.940
is what do we do with my directive on the independent

02:19:24.940 --> 02:19:25.510
review

02:19:27.129 --> 02:19:30.110
process? Yeah, the timeline, it's outside of the rule

02:19:30.110 --> 02:19:32.040
but is that something we work with on our own in a

02:19:32.040 --> 02:19:37.440
separate path or like I think the best path forward

02:19:37.440 --> 02:19:41.239
would be to separately. We can work with ERCOT and

02:19:41.239 --> 02:19:44.430
I'm sure the T DSPs will have thoughts on how to provide

02:19:44.430 --> 02:19:46.840
equal accountability, not just for ERCOT staff but

02:19:46.840 --> 02:19:50.909
also for the companies that owe them information. Uh

02:19:50.920 --> 02:19:54.700
so that one sentence. I can't delay the other. Uh and

02:19:55.469 --> 02:19:59.489
let's get some answers on that and some some possibilities

02:19:59.489 --> 02:20:01.520
to consider and then we can take that back up when

02:20:01.520 --> 02:20:08.899
we get to the actual public adoption work. So I think

02:20:08.909 --> 02:20:11.819
no, no, no, I have another question about the rule

02:20:11.819 --> 02:20:14.040
but in a totally different parts, so keep going, oh

02:20:14.040 --> 02:20:16.540
no, I was just gonna say staff has sufficient directions

02:20:16.540 --> 02:20:18.829
so far I was going to request because it wasn't always

02:20:18.829 --> 02:20:20.899
the case in the first set of comments that since there

02:20:20.899 --> 02:20:23.459
are two sides of the equation, if commenters would

02:20:23.469 --> 02:20:25.170
be clear about whether or not they're talking about

02:20:25.170 --> 02:20:27.399
the revenue requirement or the cost side of it when

02:20:27.399 --> 02:20:29.950
they're advocating on different points that would be

02:20:29.950 --> 02:20:32.819
helpful to staff. Um and then I was also gonna remind

02:20:32.819 --> 02:20:34.540
that there was one other point that was brought out

02:20:34.540 --> 02:20:36.170
in the memos and some discussions about whether or

02:20:36.170 --> 02:20:38.459
not we wanted to request modeling data, I didn't know

02:20:38.459 --> 02:20:39.950
if that was anything that you guys wanted to discuss

02:20:39.950 --> 02:20:43.909
today or not. Uh Yes, I would, I would include that

02:20:43.909 --> 02:20:47.840
in the request from both stakeholders and in working

02:20:47.840 --> 02:20:53.430
with ERCOT uh, no specific requests or scenarios, but

02:20:53.440 --> 02:20:56.459
for the commenters, please, to the extent possible

02:20:56.469 --> 02:20:59.239
I'd appreciate seeing some side by side comparisons

02:20:59.239 --> 02:21:02.829
of, here's a real real case of what a transmission

02:21:02.840 --> 02:21:07.809
line would look like. Here's how that proposed transmission

02:21:07.809 --> 02:21:11.520
line would fare in option one, option two, option three

02:21:11.520 --> 02:21:15.219
option four, which door do you want you want? Do you

02:21:15.219 --> 02:21:19.870
want to use That would be very helpful to see and we'll

02:21:19.870 --> 02:21:22.909
work with our ERCOT on their version of that. And if

02:21:22.909 --> 02:21:25.280
folks want to include stuff like that in an appendix

02:21:25.280 --> 02:21:28.040
to their comments or what I mean, Well that might work

02:21:28.049 --> 02:21:31.620
But whatever we'll take it how we can get it. Yeah

02:21:33.190 --> 02:21:35.020
Math is always good.

02:21:36.719 --> 02:21:42.950
So says the business school graduate. Wait, I have

02:21:42.950 --> 02:21:46.920
one more question on this. So, um, on page eight subsection

02:21:46.920 --> 02:21:51.930
C um there was there's an a line added about an electric

02:21:51.930 --> 02:21:56.110
utility operating solely outside of ERCOT Yes. I just

02:21:56.110 --> 02:21:57.959
didn't know what was that part of the legislative

02:21:59.500 --> 02:22:02.010
one of our one of the commenters noted that there was

02:22:02.010 --> 02:22:04.920
a provision in hb 15 10 which is one of the securitization

02:22:04.920 --> 02:22:08.489
bills um that it was an easy fix. So that's just verbatim

02:22:08.489 --> 02:22:10.819
language from the, from the statute check the box.

02:22:10.819 --> 02:22:15.700
Move on. Okay, thank you. Thank you sir. All right

02:22:15.700 --> 02:22:20.459
We've got a proposal for publication. Their motion

02:22:20.459 --> 02:22:25.950
to approve. So I'll let jimmy do it. And I move that

02:22:25.950 --> 02:22:29.520
we publish in accordance with this uh conversation

02:22:29.520 --> 02:22:31.350
system with the discussion of the diet

02:22:33.049 --> 02:22:37.750
nine seconds. Your wish is our command. We got a motion

02:22:37.760 --> 02:22:43.250
and enthusiastic second all in favor say, aye, aye

02:22:43.260 --> 02:22:46.879
not opposed motion passes, we don't have anything for

02:22:46.879 --> 02:22:49.579
the next 10 items and very briefly before we go to

02:22:49.579 --> 02:22:54.059
our executive session? (item:45:Update From Executive Director) We believe item 45 which is

02:22:54.059 --> 02:22:57.329
an update from our executive Director. Thank you. Mr

02:22:57.329 --> 02:22:59.600
Chairman Commissioners. Hopefully this announcement

02:22:59.600 --> 02:23:03.659
will not be nebulous. It will be quite specific. Um

02:23:03.670 --> 02:23:07.709
as is always my goal in these updates. Um So, you know

02:23:07.709 --> 02:23:11.159
I think this announcement is actually quite serendipitous

02:23:11.159 --> 02:23:13.590
given a lot of the discussion today in the public comments

02:23:13.590 --> 02:23:17.190
So as you are aware in our legislative appropriations

02:23:17.190 --> 02:23:21.090
request, we asked for funding for an office of Public

02:23:21.090 --> 02:23:25.739
engagement. The vision of that office is to help everyday

02:23:25.739 --> 02:23:29.049
citizens and the organizations that represent them

02:23:29.049 --> 02:23:32.739
to better interact with this agency and have more productive

02:23:32.750 --> 02:23:35.899
um participation in our in our different proceedings

02:23:35.899 --> 02:23:40.100
And so even though we have asked for that funding in

02:23:40.100 --> 02:23:42.870
the L A R for the next biennium, I think it's vitally

02:23:42.870 --> 02:23:45.770
important that we get started now and stand that division

02:23:45.770 --> 02:23:51.760
up uh as quickly as possible. So I've asked our funding

02:23:51.760 --> 02:23:55.649
staff to reallocate resources beginning september 1st

02:23:55.659 --> 02:23:58.629
and we are going to stand that division up september

02:23:58.629 --> 02:24:01.549
1st so that we can better participate and have better

02:24:01.549 --> 02:24:06.120
participation from the public. Um and so in order to

02:24:06.120 --> 02:24:08.350
do that now I had to be comfortable moving someone

02:24:08.350 --> 02:24:11.299
into that job and I'm happy to say that Mike Hawk,

02:24:11.309 --> 02:24:14.870
our current Director of Government Relations has accepted

02:24:14.870 --> 02:24:19.729
that post and will begin september 1st. So thank you

02:24:19.729 --> 02:24:21.569
hoke

02:24:25.489 --> 02:24:28.659
and like I said, I think, you know, um we've heard

02:24:28.659 --> 02:24:31.190
this coming out of your e and it's it's been kind of

02:24:31.190 --> 02:24:35.190
a constant criticism and and request from the legislature

02:24:35.190 --> 02:24:38.600
and others to to address helping the public participate

02:24:38.600 --> 02:24:41.489
here. And so I think it's it's vitally important, you

02:24:41.489 --> 02:24:43.479
know, for us to fulfill our mission and our promise

02:24:43.479 --> 02:24:49.280
to Texas agreed. And as we heard earlier uh reminded

02:24:49.280 --> 02:24:52.559
that all of these efforts are for the benefit of our

02:24:52.559 --> 02:24:55.530
consumers at home, our families and our households

02:24:55.540 --> 02:24:57.969
and I know hope will do an excellent job of putting

02:24:57.969 --> 02:25:02.000
even more resources and focus on delivering results

02:25:02.010 --> 02:25:05.250
to the people that matter most. So thank you for taking

02:25:05.250 --> 02:25:07.500
the initiative on this. I know we'll all advocate for

02:25:07.500 --> 02:25:12.639
this uh resources for this uh as part of our next budget

02:25:12.639 --> 02:25:16.649
cycle. And especially Miss Jackson will be a leading

02:25:16.659 --> 02:25:21.510
leading force on this effort uh appreciate it across

02:25:21.510 --> 02:25:28.040
the board. Thank you. I did want to say one thing prior

02:25:28.040 --> 02:25:31.129
to uh adjourning for executive session and that is

02:25:31.129 --> 02:25:35.319
that I'm disappointed that that my two colleagues up

02:25:35.319 --> 02:25:38.620
here didn't wear a tie on our fifth Commissioners first

02:25:38.629 --> 02:25:43.129
day in spite of the fact that we have been pushing

02:25:43.129 --> 02:25:47.399
them to not wear ties through the summer. Um This was

02:25:47.409 --> 02:25:50.840
such a great day that I think that I just wanted to

02:25:50.840 --> 02:25:54.340
express my the only reason I didn't wear the tie was

02:25:54.340 --> 02:25:57.270
because our fourth Commissioner gave me so much grief

02:25:57.270 --> 02:25:57.969
last year,

02:25:59.760 --> 02:26:04.079
thankfully our next meeting will be in september and

02:26:04.079 --> 02:26:08.020
we'll be back to standard rules and regulations. And

02:26:08.020 --> 02:26:10.190
as I told commissioner Glotfelty this morning when

02:26:10.190 --> 02:26:12.290
I saw him wearing a tie, you know, as this was Connie's

02:26:12.290 --> 02:26:15.170
recommendation to do summer casual. I found it in my

02:26:15.170 --> 02:26:17.309
best interest to follow the advice of Connie Corona

02:26:17.309 --> 02:26:20.299
and all things for for success in my life. So I'll

02:26:20.299 --> 02:26:23.370
continue to do that. Actually texted him about what

02:26:23.379 --> 02:26:26.940
the uniform of the day was like yesterday and he delayed

02:26:26.940 --> 02:26:30.799
like 30 minutes. I knew he was asking. That's exactly

02:26:30.799 --> 02:26:36.280
right. I'm not really disappointed. But uh we'll try

02:26:36.280 --> 02:26:37.020
harder next time.

02:26:38.700 --> 02:26:42.170
Alright that that concludes the agenda for open portion

02:26:42.180 --> 02:26:45.260
uh of the meeting today. Having convened in a duly

02:26:45.260 --> 02:26:48.319
notice. Open meeting. Commission will now at 12 01

02:26:48.329 --> 02:26:52.049
PM on august 25th 2020 to hold a closed session pursuant

02:26:52.049 --> 02:26:54.370
to chapter 501 of the texas government code, section

02:26:54.370 --> 02:27:01.069
551.7151 point 074 and 551.76. We'll be back in a bit

02:27:01.079 --> 02:27:07.290
Thank you. All right, closed session is hereby concluded

02:27:07.290 --> 02:27:11.219
at 12:10 p.m. On august 25th 2020 and the commission

02:27:11.219 --> 02:27:13.170
will now resume its public meeting. Having discussed

02:27:13.170 --> 02:27:17.690
personal matters in closed session. I will now entertain

02:27:17.690 --> 02:27:20.840
a motion for the following action to name Mark Hoban

02:27:20.840 --> 02:27:23.020
campus Assistant Commission Council of O. P. D. M.

02:27:23.020 --> 02:27:26.870
With an annual salary of $150,000 effective september

02:27:26.870 --> 02:27:31.250
1st 2022 named Sheila Cisneros is deputy commission

02:27:31.260 --> 02:27:36.100
counselor of O. P. D. M. With an annual salary of $160,000

02:27:36.110 --> 02:27:42.389
Effective september 1st 2022. Is there a motion? 2nd

02:27:42.399 --> 02:27:46.120
2nd, got a motion second, all in favor? Say, aye, aye

02:27:46.129 --> 02:27:50.280
not opposed the motion passes and having no further

02:27:50.280 --> 02:27:52.620
business before come, before this commission is meeting

02:27:52.620 --> 02:27:55.659
The public utility commissioner. Texas is hereby adjourned

02:27:55.670 --> 02:27:57.010
Thank you all.